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Axiam
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Don't forget that Akari's feats and boosts make him almost unparalleled at fending off attacks and just waltzing on past defensive lines. With Dash and vitality, he can be able to get to and secure objectives multiple times after all your opponent's models have activated.

Sure he is expensive but if you drop ki on him you could get to max prayers on the 6 idol missions with ease and after your opponent has finished activating you could even possibly turn two idols on the 3 objective missions, or sneak in to out number and out score on a zone.

For opponents killing Akari is a high priority, and very difficult to do in his new incarnation. I would definitely say that if he had kata/adept or was more kill capable, which he could potentially be with praying mantis stance, then he would need another increase in cost and I think that would make him less likely to be taken.

I like his characterisation for what he is and apart from how paranoid I always am about him being one shot by something I think he is pretty fair. Taking him is a big risk but he gives big rewards when he makes it through alive.

Axiam

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Riku seems to be a bit cheap, but other than that he is fine. Played against him yesterday and i really think that his rice cost is the only thing. He is very capable though. Liked the changes to the monks i played against. Ekusa was a fun opponent. Totaly dominated me, but i liked his changes none the less. Also the cow was good. Aiko the little girl seemed very pricy, maybe she needs a reduction in rice?

For my own part, i played cult. I love Penny, always have, but with the addition of fear 6 as well, she needs to go up in price too. There will never ever be a reason not to take her from a competitive view unless playing a zombie themed list. I mean, fear 6 also unlocks the dread upgrade. So, she just became a whole damn lot better. I get it, since i started playing around 3 years ago, people have always stated she should have fear due to the sculpt looking like it does. So why not, it isn´t game breaking. But she was always sort of undercosted for her abilities, and even more so with fear 6 and a optional passive dread skill plus her cammo. I really don´t want to change a thing on how she functions, but i have no problem seeing her closer to 20 rice if it was up to me. Right now she has very good ki feats, hypnotic gaze is ver powerfull, and she is reliable triggering it with willpower. She can handle her self in a melee with melee skill 3 and acess to lightning reflexes and have grapple 0. I sometimes pay for the lightning reflexes even if i want to roll all defence, just to mess with my opponents dice pool. She has great passive defences with cammo 4 and now fear 6. Give her dread and most opponents have a hard time just getting in to btb with her. Excellent WIM. 

 

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Penny is a special case, she will be fixed but some circumstances may mean she needs tweaking.
I want her to have fear, she's not finished yet.

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Just saw the new stats for master Koju. There's a lot to like about him but I need to clarify a few things. Firstly if he uses his Tiger or deer attack does he lose his lightning reflexes, immunity prone, fearless, unblockable, ect?

Also can he use ki to boost these attacks? And can he use his ki feats as normal?

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The tiger or deer profile completely replace her main card.

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With the new Dread rule Kano and the Bakemono Bat Rider models have higher chance of succeeding Fear tests against the Wrath than Rashka. Intended?

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Does this mean that you can choose to use the tiger or deer profiles or does it mean that you can't use Koju's profile at all if you buy the upgrade?

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You can choose which profile to use.

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With the new Dread rule Kano and the Bakemono Bat Rider models have higher chance of succeeding Fear tests against the Wrath than Rashka. Intended?

 

With so many interactions there will always be some odd effects that crop up.  
In this case maybe the Onisho are more likely to throw themselves into combat to prove themselves, Rashka has nothing to prove.

If you play it and its a problem I'll look at it.
 

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In the Alphas theme, where there isn't even a single bravery, that will definitely be an issue. Nightmares is going to walk all over the Oni who can barely retaliate.

 

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I just realised we removed Bravery from them because they had Fear (6)...  It was a wasted trait taking up space on the card.

Obviously this Dread change makes Bravery necessary again.

I will add Bravery, Courage or Fearless to some Oni again.  Possibly not the same as current edition.
If you have suggestions based mostly on flavour or gameplay post here.

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Hope fully this is the right place to ask this one:

On the latest beta profile cards for Ito clan, there are Two Models where the summary of Ki feat characteristics differ to the full effect description / characteristics  on the "back" of the card

Although the summary stats one appears to tbe the same as the outgoing cards, Could you confirm which one is the correct one going forward, please?

Naoko
summary text :  “Mutation” – I P – **
 
Full text
 “Mutation” [OPT] – A P – **
This model gains one of the following until the
End Phase:
· +1 Melee Weapon Strength
· Regeneration (2)
· Armour (1), or +1

 
Yuui
Summary  Text “Detect” – no melee S Ta 4” – **
 
Full text
“Detect” – no melee S Pu 6” – **
Choose a model in the pulse that model loses
Camouflage until the End Phase.
 
Thanks in Advance!
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Full text is correct in both cases.

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Ancestral Spirit is now Ronin for Prefecture, Ito and Minimoto. How does this affect themes? E.g. Finest Steel

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Ancestral Spirit is now Ronin for Prefecture, Ito and Minimoto. How does this affect themes? E.g. Finest Steel

 

Example for Ito, as I understand:

- It's a Ronin Kami, so you can play it in a Ito Clan List as long as you can include Kami Ronins. 

- The "Lords of Izu" theme specifically include Ronin Kami, so you can use Ancestor in a "Lords of Izu" themed List. pg 15 specify you can get Ronins in a Faction Themed list as long as the theme itself allows you to do so.

- In "The Blessed" you cannot include Ronins, so no Ancestor.

- As stated in the rules, when the theme specify "Permitted" you can ONLY have that models, and the "Exclusion" negates you to have some models. Because the Ronin themes don't have these rules, you can get the Ancestor as well because your list would be legal in each. This is also specified in the pg. 15 of the rules, where stated that Ronin models can be included in Ronin Themed Lists. (*)

 

 

(*) After reading it, I have the doubt for Ronins as well... it would better stated if the themes would better specify that. Since the Faction themed list you can get only Faction models, it's a good idea to put "Permitted: ITO Samurai, ITO Ashigaru, RONIN Kami" and so on. In the Ronin Themes you can also state "Permitted: [Faction] Model, [Ronin] Model" as well: in that case, every model you can use in the theme are on the card, and you are not in doubt - for example - if you can use Golden Sentinel or Kenzo in the "Lords of Izu" theme just by reading the card. Rules can be mistaken as well, but peculiar cards are always on the table for the opponent.

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Slightly on that topic.

Dafukaia lets you include fire kami in themes. Iron fist specifically excludes models with range weapons. But since Dafukaias card refers to the theme I assume the fire kami can still come?

Another note on Dafukaia. Is he supposed to be the only non-usei monk that lacks bravery?

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I am going to answer myself on the first question. Exclusion trumps permitance as per the rules so no Fire Kami.

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I just fixed it, you can bring Fire Kami now :)

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Matsu takashi is a bit of a merge of the two old profiles, but a lot more of the 6 rice than the 8 rice. Now, i think she looks perfectly fine this way, but what about her cost? To me, she looks to be a bit expensive now. And martial prowes is good, but should she really have it? I thought she did alright with dodge before, if that is something that brings up her rice cost.

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I just browsed through the jung profiles. Is Temo gone? Can't find him.

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Teemo can be found in the Ronin list now.

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My mistake, I posted Ito's comments on the Profile Cards instead of there.

 

 

Now something about my opponent Yurei...

 

 

ABOUT KATO AND IKIRYO

 

Some thoughts on the new Ki system (specifically Yurei vs Ito).

 

Now, when you roll 3 dices for a Opposed Ki feat you presume to win. Not so many models has 3 Ki (or 2 Ki + Resistance) in the game, so this lead to some consideration on Kato and Ikyrio.

 

Kato’s Marionette comes with 4 Ki. If you don’t get rid of it in some way, it rolls 4 dices against yours, giving you 4 Control Tokens – almost two turns! - and it’s really a game changer deal, even on a weak model. I don’t want to say that it shouldn’t be decisive, but Marionette often comes in a outnumbering band so it’s a decisive threat spreaded on a 6”/7” radius.

In New Dawn we always played wrong: our Ki tests was like as Melee tests, so +2 for 6’s and +1 for supporting dices as well. In such way, Marionette is a great threat but sometimes you simply try to resist put your best willing model, like Takeji, that roll 2d6+1 for Ki test against 4d6. This often comes in a 1-2 Control situation, so yes it was decisive but you don’t have lose the game at all.

When Kato palyes in the Nightmare list, he can only do it: playing Marionette game. So every single drop of his resources are used to play control, in a list that are more mobile and violent than the one with Kirai. It’s quite hard to engage or evade the Marionette itself, sooner or later it can drop 4 Control Tokens to one of your models since NO MODEL can actually resists it on the average, and a success level of 0 drops tons of Control tokens.

To me, Marionette should make an opposed test, dropping Control like the difference with a Cap of the number of Ki that it have on it. This means that a good roll can save you the day by giving it a success of 0, or you can be controlled – always not a good thing – and Kato can use another Marionette soon.

 

And, while Kato fits perfectly the Kirai theme, I don’t get him in the Nightmare, but it’s only a matter of mood to me – he is the puppet master, not the demon master.

 

 

Second (obviously) issue on Ikiryo.

She can makes you look into the void twice a turn: it’s nearly impossibile to resist, since she has 3 Ki. So, on the average she drops 4 wounds every gaze. Yes, you would try to not see her eyes, by moonwalking, hiding and so on; but sooner or later you are in a melee at 8” from her, se she moves and looks at you. Dropping two of your 1 Ki models at 1 wound in a turn (really easily) and after that killing them with the pulse effect the next turn. Boom! She is supposed to be dangerous, but not auto-win. In the New Dawn version, Itsunagi itself could better resists by rolling 3d6+1 for Ki, and if goes bad he suffer 4 founds against 6 – so he is damaged but can take out her, because he can suffer a single gaze per turn. Now, not only Itsu are more in danger, but she can drop her gaze – even if she are nearer – twice per turn, without really have the chances to lose. This is absolutely game-breacking to me: dropping wounds like no tomorrow since the turn 2-3 makes your game conservative with no meaning to get her – unless a very brave cloudwalking killer.

 

To me, I’d like to see her very very dangerous, so my proposal it’s to make wounds on the difference in the Ki test, with a Cap of Ki spendend (a cost of X instead of three). Since this feat already ignores Armour and Toughness, it’s a good way to corrode the wound pool of tough enemies. Even a cost of 1 makes you put 1 wound on the average. You can spend even 8 Ki in a single test killing one enemy, but you have first to accumulate Ki to a really bad gaze so your opponent knows it and stay at 12” (threat of Ikirio) if he can.

Or, simpler, make her “Look into the Void” a Complex Feat with a really huge range.

 

 

 

In conclusion, I don’t like the game mechanic when a single, easy-to-win roll would decide the entire game. You can win or lose as well, but it always seems a struggle to fight a single duel instead of a skirmish game, where other models doesn’t really count for the victory.

 

ABOUT KAMI OF BLIGHTED EARTH

Please, PLEASE, never give a model an easy access to an “Aura” effect that influence movement! It’s quite hard to measure how much you move in the area of effect of a difficult terrain. This leads to annoying measurements every time you move, sometimes you want only to get rid of this Kami instead of winning the game.

 

ABOUT PENGGALAN

Adding Fear is simply OP. I suppose with camo she can hide like a lady before revealing his really form, if she does someone should spot her as a demon so why Camouflage again? I would stop her to get camo and starts disguised instead. And reducing fear by 1 to me, she already has a brutal Hypnogaze option, and Dodge against difficult combats.

 

THEMES OF YUREI

 

Altough I know is quite hard to balance, both Yurei themes are OP to me.

- Both give scout to slow models (and not only). So: easy deploy, and something that reduce very much the flaws of the slower models.

I propose a Forward Deployment for Kirai (if deployed later, the Yurei player always benefit of the advantage of knowing where opponent’s models are) and Scout/4” only for a single Kami in the Nightmares.

- In Nightmares, EVERY SINGLE BURAKUMIN gains Bodyguard. Burakumin often cost a little and in this way can protect very dangerous models without any effort.

I propose to choose one or two of them to get this bonus, not every one.

- In Death and Decay, you struggle against immortal Kirai – which fits the theme perfectly – but every time someone dies a new Kirai emerges. Ok, this is good, but sooner or later on of your model would die (Maybe Rokuro kills one, maybe just for accumulating wound) and this theme gets a great advantage in terms of positioning and number of activations.

I propose to give the Kirai resurrection only to friendly models: oppoenents models already struggle against zombies, with Kato that makes them nearly unkillable; you already cannot rely on Opposed Ki test since the number of Soulless stuff in here, but if the Yurei chooses to play a plenty of cultists you can play a “control” strategy against it.

- Autowin of tactical roll is simply an overkill situation. If you are not in great advantage on that turn when fighting Kirai, you are like to have lose; not mentioning the free Ki to almost everyone. In the Nightmare’s is not the tactical roll itself, but the Spirit/-1 simply overwhem you without effort.

I would give the Autotactical roll like the flanking: an hidden information, you know that you are losing tactic but you don’t know which turn. And no more bonuses: no free Ki to Kirai, no Spiri/-1 to ANYONE on the field when Kato, Ikyrio, Penggalan and don’t know what else are roaming around the field.

 

 

Something I don’t like, is that Yurei already force you to play differently from others, even without this OP themes.

Especially Death & Decay list, where everyone already has fear and soulless, you cannot fight effectively since you struggle against fear and rise, you cannot use some control guys since they are often soulless, and has very devastating buffs from their theme. Say a “Blessed” list based on Ayako it… you can do nothing against them.

For the Nightmares, they are strong as they are supposed to be (you are facing demons, after all!) but your list can use every of their powers since they aren’t nullified by the presence of an huge number of soulless and frightnening models around.

 

So, especially for Ito, a Blessed list could fight against Nightmares but it has a little less will on them, but more combat power. But every Shisai is absolutely useless and every fear (Akimoto, Saburo) is nearly useless against a Death and Decay list.

Again, a Lord of Izu can fight with brute steel agaisnt Nightmares, and drop a good boost to courage against the Death and Decay, but the Kirai with the boost nullify their speed with better and forwared deploy, and simple doesn’t drop dead easily.

 

I don’t have the same Issue against my Tengu opponent, for example. I win (more often lose) as well, I cannot rely on my speed since he flies around, but if I want to drop poison around I can do it; if I want to play Shisai game the girls always do their job; if I want to kill something I can achieve the result.

 

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Small question for KKZ: the mirage ki feat. With the clarification of placing, does that mean that if you success you can "place" your model in the back of the ennemy (granted your respect the 2" distance) and thus surpise him at your next activation? 

Pierre Roques

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Yes, you can use Mirage that way.

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Comment added to culf of yurei pdf on dropbox. (great feature, more comment will follow on main manual and other army list)

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Comment added on tengu (with a comment comment with silvermoon), ronin,+1 on main rules.

 

Pierre Roques

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I did not spot I could comment while selecting a specific section. Much easier this way ^^.

Will do it from now on.

Pierre Roques

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Just so people know.  I don't get a notification when you comment on Dropbox.
Please let me know here if you do so I can check it sooner.

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Strange it say CGT studio will get notification when u post a comment. Btw gonna come here and write update if needed.

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Well noted for the notification, I was wondering.

So in that case I left comments on ITO, Sylver moon, tengu, KKZ, ronin and main rules.

I used the same methode as the person commenting the yurei pdf (sorry forgot your name), to link the comment to a zone on the pdf. easier for everyone.

Pierre Roques

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So I'm looking at the various kamis. Muck still got steady btw. However, what i was mainly wondering about was the kami of reflection. To me it seems very weak compared to the other kamis. Was the new dawn version somehow considered to powerfull? This one, where you only can change the target of a test to another one of your own is much less usefull. Specially since it cost one "life" to do it. If you prefer not being able to autopass like before, what about making the feat cost nothing but only be usable once per turn? If that isn't something you like, then atleast consider giving it more traits, agile and dodge maybe? To me, this kami needs more to be an option compared to the much more versetaile kamis it competes against in all warbands that can take the kami of reflection.

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I was thinking on Mikio, per his fluff he is yoriki at Jyoto. So it makes sense to move him to the Minimoto but you could also consider that he is sent to Jyoto by Prefecture of Ryu.

This would allow him to be Ronin for both factions so that Prefecture players who have invested in the model can still take him in their warbands.

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Minimoto comments:

Minimoto Yuji:
I'm not happy with Yuji losing Steadfast for the simple reason that it doesn't fit on the Profile Card. I think in that case it would be better to look at Bear Stands Alone and making it shorter to make more space, e.g. Bear Stance.
If that is not an option I'd rather lose Bravery for the certainty that all Minimoto can always make it into BtB against Fear causing creatures.

Minimoto Jushin:
I miss Resistance 1 or 2 on his profile. Considering his general toughness against physical attacks this may be intentional.

Resistance and Steadfast are core abilities for Minimoto but so far both Minimoto Samurai are missing one or the other. This doesn't feel right.

Nuan:
I know I sound like a broken record but I'd really like to see Nuan get Resistance(1)

 

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Kage Kaze Zoku:

Makoto:
I just noticed she doesn't get to choose Agile anymore. While Move Ki boost of 2 is nice, I really liked her having the option to get Agile.
Her Ki feat Escape, does this kind of ability allow her to leave BtB ? The Karapan has a similar ability to make a walk action.
I think it's not allowed but it's not clear at this moment.

Ujimushi/Wamu + Ghost synergy:
Their Unique ability to gain 1 ki per activation will allow them to activate Vitality every turn relatively easily.

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Another solution for the kami of reflection might be to just give it more ki, like 4 or atleast 3. Just a thought. Or come to think of it, why not give the feat an option to also work like the tornado ki feat, but for opposed tests. That would be very suitable for a mirror, more so than just canceling a feat like in new dawn, don't you think?

something like this..but with more elegant wording perhaps : 

“Ki Mirror” I Pu6” - *

When a Friendly non-Soulless model
within 6” becomes the target of a Ki Feat
you may choose a new, valid Friendly,
Non-Soulless target for the Ki Feat,
ignoring the feats range.
 
Or
 
When a Friendly model within 6" is the Target
of a failed Opposed ki test, immediately 
perform the same feat using the ki stat and traits of the model that failed the test. Souless from this model does not apply. After the test, remove this model from play. 
 
 
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The Kami of Reflection is still very powerful.  I usually use the Ki feat to make the target the kami itself since it’s Soulless.  Pay attention to the text of offensive Ki feats, since some can target models in the same warband.

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But the fest says new, valid friendly, non-souless target... So it's not possible to make the kami the target itself.

Another idea for the kami would be to let it use the opponents special attacks and defences as if it was written on its card. It wont be broken since the kami has only melee skill 2 anyway and very limited options to increase that statistic. It might need some wording against super rare specials, like ivory prison and the one master Enos got. I think it would be fitting a mirror, to let whomever fights it in a way get to fight themselves.

I know, for 8 rice you can't stack to many things on it. Still, i think it needs something to be an attractive option other than being a pretty cool miniature.

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I honestly don't remember changing the Kami except to make the ability a feat.  

I'll look at the old wording and see what's gone wrong.

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About katos ivory prison. The main rule says you can make a kairai for 5 rice (just the same as in new dawn) and katos profile has no additional text. Is this intentional, right now that means you can only make a risen kairai, or just a copy paste thing from the old rules?

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Thought I might write a post about some of the profiles I believe are a problem at the moment.

1. Okyo Ashigaru. These guys were a joke at 4 points in the last iteration of the game and now that they cost 9 points they are pretty much unplayable. They are nearly double the cost of a Goshi or rice farmer yet offer little more in the way of combat effectiveness. Indeed a child of Orochi now offers a similar level of combat power at a discount and can support other models.

2. Minuro. Even at 12 points this guy is seriously undercosted. He is fully capable of pulling off a one shot kill on most models in the game or at the least putting a serious hole in them. This guy has been a problem for many years now and hopefully this will be be a chance to properly price him.

3.Genji and Iiju. These guys were undercosted in the previous edition and although they were nerfed their points reductions have placed them back on the same power curve. Comparably priced melee models from other factions simply cannot fight on an equal footing with these guys.

4. Master Koju. Coming in at 28 points with her upgrade Master Koju needs to compete with some of the nastiest melee monsters in the game to be a viable choice. It took me a little while to get to grips with her unique combat abilities but I am finding that she struggles against many cheaper adversaries (Itsunagi Ito, Taisho Tenbatsu, or Katsumi) I believe that Master Koju needs either a points reduction or a buff to better reflect her point cost. Perhaps adept and kata on her regular profile or perhaps brutal 1 on the tiger profile.

5. Riku at 18 points seems a tad underwhelming.

6. Aiko. Even with her reduction to 11 points she can essentially only provide a single buff to a friendly model and do little else. I dropped her from my list for that reason when she cost 4 points (in the old money). For a similar price one can buy Ume, Haru, Kintaru or Kaito all of whom provide much more overall benefit to your crew.

7. Pit Dog. For 2 rice this thing is crazy good.

8. Fai Ginn. Another over costed support model. Full of cool flavour but ultimately fairly useless on the battlefield.

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I don´t see how riku is underwhelming. Adept combined with kata is essentially like giving him brutal or parry if he puts all his dice into either attack or defense. He is more suited for defensive play, so why not make him a student of master akari and he is as good as untouchable in melee with what is in effect parry 3 (again, rolling all dice in defense) pushing people around. Or pay for counter attack and do some damage, still a safe play for him. His water thing is a solid feat as well.

I will agree on the pit dogs. They are indeed crazy good for their rice.

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Joined: 24/07/2017 - 11:38
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Riku was special in new dawn as he was one of only a few melee skill 4 models in the 8 Point price range. He struggled against a lot of 9 point models but could more than hold his own against other 8 pointers. At an 18 point price tag Riku has to compete with a higher calibre of opponents in order to be a viable choice (Kenzo and Masunagi Ito, the Blood brothers, or Hagane to name a few.) meanwhile several other melee skill 4 models have seen a relative reduction in points (Gengi, Iiju and Fujiwaro Ran).

Riku only has push defence which was never as good as sidestep defence (if you were outnumbered you could only get away from one opponent at a time) and that difference is now even more pronounced with the changes to sidestep defence.

Kata is a real boon to the monks but I have found adept to only be of any real value in defence (throwing 4 dice) rather than in attack unless the model can be sure of no retaliation if it's attack is successful (slam, throw or push attacks for example) Riku has none of these.

Riku's wave feat can no longer be used to push friends up the board toward objectives or for alpha strikes ect.

The wave feat is cool but somewhat unreliable. Against massed troops (and in particular small troops) it can be brilliant at other times it does very little. I have found it is only worthwhile using it if you can catch at least 3 normal sized enemies in it's pulse. There are also a number of models in the game that can practically ignore being pushed around by the wave. A good opponent will target him with these models from turn 1.The wall of water is admittedly great for keeping enemies away from objectives in turn 1

For a single point more Yumi is a superlative combatant. I fear that this may leave Riku in a similar situation to Seiji in new dawn. Seiji almost never made it into any of my lists as he was not much better than the 6 point Hotaru (or the Kappa for that matter) and for an extra point I could buy Riku or Yuuki. As it stands Riku is in a hard position between Yuuki who is good value at 16 points and Yumi who is great value at 19.

In summary Riku is a decent defencive model but for 18 points he needs to be a little more than a model that just holds on against cheaper models with armour and martial prowess. If he is to remain at 18 points perhaps he could gain sidestep defence or something to aide him in attack (a feint feat, slam attack (1) or throw /sweep attack /defence (1) for example).

Ret-Fleafa
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Joined: 24/05/2013 - 18:34
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Okyo Ashigaru: I actually liked these in New Dawn. Playing them as a pair, and supported by Jirou, they were surprisingly effective in Melee when necessary, but mostly served as cheap blockers or scenario workers. Their Rice increase is a confusing one for me. I'd like to see them at 7 Rice, honestly.

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