Aiko

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Atrus
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Aiko

Played 5 games with Aiko. With the changes she is useless.

She can only bless once per turn (Before new dawn too, but with 1d6 blessings, or 2 times with Ekusa), and the blessings are a bit low.

Fire: Now we cannot gain additional dice or +1 to combat result. Also, the +1 damage, with the new table is a ridiculous boost. However the addition of fire is very nice. Should give more damage, or a Extra dice instead of damage.

Water: Heal 2 blood with the lethality of new dawn is very poor.

Earth: Gain Armor 2 with the new table is very poor.

Air: Its Ok.

Also, she cannot make Fearless (the main use of the blessings Before New Dawn).

In addition she cost 4 rice... lets see:

Daisuke: 4 rice. 5 blood. 2 Melee dice. First Strike...

Orphan: 8 rice (but has Wrath). 4 blood. 1 Melee dice. Dodge. Fear 5...

Aiko: 4 rice. 3 blood. 0 Melee dice. Weak. Retreat. Movement 3!....

Peasant: 3 rice. 5 blood. 2 melee dice...

The "worst stats ever seen in a model " of aiko should compensate the blessings. She is a very easy to kill model, and her unique skill should shine a bit more. Yes, its a 4 rice model, but (for example) Daisuke too, and has the same healing capabilities and is a decent warrior.

Henrix
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Heal 2 with a range of LoS and usable at will is poor?

I follow the rules of bushido. I am a bushi.

Swedish players, rally to Hokuō Bushido!

mertaal
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Strongly disagree. For 4 points she's brilliant, and the blessings are extremely useful. The key is her versitility. She can heal, buff, speed up and increase armour. If you think armour 2 is useless we're playing a different game. 

It's also bogus to compare a model from one faction with one from another. They are not simply churned out to a formula- the dynamics, availabilies and deficiencies of each faction are taken in to account when costing a model. 

I'd love to take Daisuke in the Temple. I'd also love to be able to take Ekusa in the Cult. They are different factions for a reason, and you can't compare them as like for like. 

Atrus
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Ret-Henrix wrote:

Heal 2 with a range of LoS and usable at will is poor?

Yes. My experience with the new rules are kill or being killed, so Heal rarely comes in play, and when a model have 1 blood remaining, healing 2 blood doesnt save that model from being killed next time.

Maybe against the prefacture works, but against the cult the only thing I find usefull is the +1 Movement and the Fire Trait, and I have to put the blessing before the combat, predicting what model need it more.

Bushido its not about Killing, its about Tactic.
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mertaal
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Side step defence, run away to Ekusa next activation, get healed. Simple!

 

In Aiko's case you don't even need to. You use her blessings as instant Ki feats, so you don't even need to be the active model to heal. 

 

I think, with respect, that you're exaggerating about the lethality of combat. a 2 wound heal on a monk is very often the difference between life and death, and it's really not that common to one shot a model in a single activation, whatever you say. In my experience, 2-4 wounds is average for a successful hit.  

Hakkor
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The problem is that normally the unit that charges in, chooses an exhausted unit which can be caught by surprise. Then, that's an insta-kill. Normally, someone that just runs like a mad and tries to instakill  someone, finds a unit that throws 2-3 dice in defence and gets not more than 4-5 wounds (staying alive if it has 6+ wounds).

It's true that units with a negative damage modifier can be hitting eah other for long turns, and in this cases 2 wounds healed are a lot.

But yes, after a dozen of games those slight +1 or +2 (regarding they can be accumulated!) can make a difference.

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@ Hakkor; Are playing it that the Melee Strength is added to the Damage Roll Result not the number of wounds, and that Armour subtracts from the Damage Roll result?

"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."

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GCT Master T wrote:

@ Hakkor; Are playing it that the Melee Strength is added to the Damage Roll Result not the number of wounds, and that Armour subtracts from the Damage Roll result?

Yes

Bushido its not about Killing, its about Tactic.
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Henrix
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How can getting to suprise attack an exhausted enemy be normal? In our games that is fairly hard to achieve.

I follow the rules of bushido. I am a bushi.

Swedish players, rally to Hokuō Bushido!

mertaal
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Also, rolling two more melee dice than your opponent is far from instakill. It helps (most of the time) but it's certainly not a foregone conclusion. 

 

If you charge in and try to one shot a weak model you'll probably kill it (and so you should), but you've also then left yourself exhausted in the middle of enemy territory. Then you need to ask yourself if it was worth it or not...

 

My answer: no. You're basically sacrificing one of your good models to kill one of lesser points value. Choose those charges wisely, and don't leave anyone stranded unless you want to sacrifice them as a distraction while you do something critical. As per the other thread- if you're charging in recklessly then no wonder you think the game is now a bloodbath!

 

 

Atrus
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Ret-Henrix wrote:

How can getting to suprise attack an exhausted enemy be normal? In our games that is fairly hard to achieve.

Are you serius? O_o Is very easy to achieve. Cause when you fight in melee (against a Tired model for that example), the two models facing change to see each other, so... an another unit starting in his back (out of LoS) can now attack the (now a exhausted model) with surprise.

This happens in ALL of our games. Not in all combats, but is very common.

Bushido its not about Killing, its about Tactic.
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Ret-mertaal wrote:

If you charge in and try to one shot a weak model you'll probably kill it (and so you should), but you've also then left yourself exhausted in the middle of enemy territory. Then you need to ask yourself if it was worth it or not...

We are axagerating xD I used Yumi charging agains Kato cause I had an opportunity to kill him helpless. I used Faith, and 6 Ki, and Kato survives. Bad luck. But the opportunity was good IMHO.

 

PD: How many Rice you play normaly?

Bushido its not about Killing, its about Tactic.
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Henrix
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I still don't get that many exhausted and surprise attacks. You still have to manoevre around the figure to turn her around, and with some backup that is often tricky.

I follow the rules of bushido. I am a bushi.

Swedish players, rally to Hokuō Bushido!

mertaal
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Atrus wrote:

Are you serius? O_o Is very easy to achieve. Cause when you fight in melee (against a Tired model for that example), the two models facing change to see each other, so... an another unit starting in his back (out of LoS) can now attack the (now a exhausted model) with surprise.

This happens in ALL of our games. Not in all combats, but is very common.

If it happens all the time this is either because you're not holding your line properly, or because you're moving too far forward with an attacker and allowing people to get behind you. 

It's possible to slide around the base of a model with your free movement when initiating a melee attack, turning the enemy's back towards the rest of your forces, but I can't say that is easy to achieve. It's situational. Sometimes you can manage it, and sometimes you can't. 

On another note, do you play with enough terrain?

Atrus
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ASHIGARU A  activates and attack Kairai, who was Tired already. Both survives, and now Kairai is exhausted:

Now is the CUlT turn, and Ikiryo kills Hanso with her gaze of death. Yay!

The prefacture player, now uses his other Ashigaru to attack the exhausted Kairai from out of Line of Sight:

Kairai now is fucked >_<

 

Hope these ugly diagrams works for explaining. Maybe we are doing something wrong... :s

 

Bushido its not about Killing, its about Tactic.
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Ret-mertaal wrote:

On another note, do you play with enough terrain?

Yes, we use terrain (not in the example) but we both think than with terrain is easier get surprised, cause there are less LoS.

Bushido its not about Killing, its about Tactic.
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GCT xoddsx
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Hey, in that example you choose to let him be surprised.

You could have shot at the Ashigaru and killed him (more likely as less Ki than Hanso).

This leaves Hanso the tricky choice of swatting the kairai (but without surprise) Or attacking Ikiryo (and possibly losing the fear role).

Decisions lead to possibilities and that's what we want. These are all strategical possibilities and make you think (we hope).

Hakkor
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Yes. Also, how tall are the buda head? We suppose that being a 40mm miniature, it's volume will be similar to the one stated in the rulebook. So, a surprise attack is as easy as moving 4 inches around and getting into btb with an enemy. Unless the enemy has all his models sticked together (in wich case, a slam attack or similar is awesome), the risk for later turns is minimum, specially if you have 1 or 2 units close to backup.

 

The thing is that I've started to understand how you play. I used to play that wasy with GW's Lord of the Rings, where you had tons of individual units but you had to make lines and hold them to win fights. I think you play something similar, advancing wth everyone protecting each other's flank and sticking fairly togehter. Is it? We tend to spread our troops to try to get some early points in the beginning and play with advantage before everyone clashes in the middle (you should admitt it's inevitable by the latest turns).

Moreover, we usually play the buda head mission, and sometimes the shrines mission for a change. I'm sure that other missions change sensibly the playstyle.

 

Anyway, if you think we play recklessly you should come one day here and see how any average player of our local store plays skirmish games (and there are a few who absurdly roll constant sixes). You'd get back home pale and shaking...

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Put a wounded Mizuchi (with 4 blood left) in the place of Hanso, and treat as there are no more miniatures in play. Ikiryo risks, but kills Mizuchi! (a model that can kill Ikiryo with any problem...). Then the Ashigaru B attacks the kairai...

I know, is just an example, the battles are complex and are a lot of better decisions each turn, but is an example of how easy is force a surpise attack. I repeat, in all games.

Bushido its not about Killing, its about Tactic.
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GCT xoddsx
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Lol, we need an international tournament, you guys fancy coming to the South East of England?

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Hakkor wrote:

Moreover, we usually play the buda head mission, and sometimes the shrines mission for a change. I'm sure that other missions change sensibly the playstyle.

The Idols and Keii :P

Bushido its not about Killing, its about Tactic.
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GCT xoddsx wrote:

Lol, we need an international tournament, you guys fancy coming to the South East of England?

Sounds awesome. I need cash first. And I have a problem speaking in english >_< I can understand, but is very dificult to me to speak. But I love the idea of go there and play and meet you guys ^^

Bushido its not about Killing, its about Tactic.
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Hakkor
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Well, actually I'll be in London on vacation from 25th to the 28th of October. If someone is free, we may meet and talk about it :) And if lucky, get some good ol' spoiler.

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Head down to the Cross Gaming club and meet us all! We will certainly be able to get a few games in!

 

The idols do not block line of sight, and you can move through them freely, but not end your movement on them. A bit like an Intangible model, but in reverse. 

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Well, I'll try to figure out how to get there since I'll be a bit lost. Thanks.

Anyway, a Buda Head isn't supposed to be a big metal block so that it need a 40mm base to represent it? the problem is that if you turn the head, you may find yourself helpess against units like Ikiryo.

We play it as an impassable terrain which blocks Line of Sight, but of course that means most of the times someone next to it will move around and get an opponent surprised on the other side.

Yet, it's fun to make units move round them. Makes battles more interesting as you can block enemies' way in many ways or protect important miniatures.

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What i don´t get with Aiko is the zero dice in melee combined with her traits? Those traits, as I understand the situation, will never come into play since she can´t do anything in a melee exchange exccept pray that the opponent rolls all 1´s. 

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Generally as you can not throw 0 dice ever it only means that your opponent gets 1 more dice to his MS while you get to roll 1 dice.
(You always throw at least 1 dice, if by any effect you get 0 or less dice then your opponent gets as many dice as it would take you to get from your given number up to 1 dice and you still get to roll 1 dice and pray :D For example you have -1 dice due to being Exhausted and being Aiko, that means your opponent gets +2 dice while you still roll that 1 die.)

Also you can always Bodyguard Aiko with a Rice Farmer so just keep 1 close wink

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I thought the plus one was only for opposed and target tests, not melee exchanges. Since you can nominate to not put dice into attack or defence and that does not yield a free dice in attack or defence or an extra for your opponent (?)

What would be really cool is Bodyguard on the gorilla. Maybe for christmas :) 

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Karlakarlen wrote:

I thought the plus one was only for opposed and target tests, not melee exchanges. Since you can nominate to not put dice into attack or defence and that does not yield a free dice in attack or defence or an extra for your opponent (?)

pg10 of the online rulebook under the Tests section.
"If naturally or or because of negative modifiers..."etc etc. So in this case we can say that her MS is a natural 0.

I can't really think of an effect though which doesn't let you roll a dice in bushido, because of this rule its alway at least 1 dice that has a reaaaallllyy small chance of success.

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Yes, right when you put in your "etc etc" is were the interesting part comes up,  "If naturally or because of negative modifiers a models statistic value used for an opposed or target test is 0 or less the player still rolls a singel die." 

So what you are telling me is:

A melee exchange is an opposed test (even if you do it bit differently)?

It is the initial dice pool in any sort of test that can never be less than 1? 

It´s just that I read somewhere on the forum that an opposed test and a melee exchange were two seperate things all together, hence my befuddlement.  

 

 

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Melee exchanges are a type of opposed test.  Ranged attacks are a type of target test.

You will always be able to roll 1 die.  There are things that can remove that die though, but they are exceedingly rare and very specific (Unblockable Strike/Impenetrable Defence are the only two effects that I can come up with).


It always goes to tiebreakers.

The Jumo Ring - a Bushido Blog

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Cool good to know that the exhausted and blind still have a fighting chance. 

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Sorry if I sound a bit thick, Aiko's blessings is it only one per turn or can she, if she has the Ki cast multiple blessings per turn. On the card and the errata, the phrase "can only use once per turn only appears after Fire and then goes onto describe the other three. I want to give Aiko prayer beads and fire off 3 blessings every two turns......

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She can

yenohoney