What's your faction missing?

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GCT Master T
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What's your faction missing?

Seeing as these questions seem to get some good responses and generate a bit a chat, here's the next.

What do you feel your faction is lacking if anything, and why?

Ret-JamesHasker09
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Ohhh good question master t, for cult i would like some archers :p
Weather its a guy who is does some sort of dark ki blast or even karai archers would be nice.
Yokais that i think would be cool are "joroGumo" which is a spider woman with many limbs :) so maybe have combo attack and split attack, shoot webs to prone or stun guys? Posion, list could go on.
A qilin would be a cool beast that would go nicly who ro kan, savage wave and cult :p (merc model)
Onibaba which name ive heard alot in films and such would be cool

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An impetuous Bakemono, because I really want to try boba out.

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Reason for archers, as it seems we can only kill via melee which involves rolling dice and hopeing to roll better and ki feats which involves the same thing. Would be nice to be able to have some decent ranged

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Some ideas you could introduce for Ryu are:

Reliable ranged - ashigaru archers/samurai archer character that don't suffer as horribly as guardsmen/minuro if engaged in melee like Guardsmen and don't take as long to load.  Obviously not as powerful without the arquebus.

Something in the 7 Rice bracket akin to the Mamba Guard would be useful, such as samurai retainers with yari/katana or a rank and file version of the warrior monk to go with Tenshi.

 

 

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For sts I would like a gambler who can bet on the outcome of fights. Also maybe some more arena animals and perhaps some secret artifacts/contraptions they have accumulated through trade or gambling losses. Thinking about it now how about a drunken Ronin who is debt to the gambling dens?

Gaz

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Tough one.

I honestly wouldn't say that the Cult is lacking anything that puts it at a huge disadvantage to the other factions wich really is a testament to game balance. (Said the evil Cult player, I know, I know. . . cheeky)

However, if we play wishing well, I would like to see a different approach to a Kairai themed "master." Someone who supports them in a different manner.

Other than that I am always up for more evil sorcery type of characters.

What I would love to see most however, would be the other races getting involved with the Cult. Sure we've got an undead Oni but I bet that there is at least one Buto, Hillsman or Jungle Pygmie who couldn't resist a little Conspiracy. devil

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Would be nice to see more karai
Maybe some ito nake people turned karai :,)
So speed 5 still slow but to compensate maybe have rise 5 or somthing?
Or maybe some undead monks so some nice melee high skilled karai ovbipusly mre expensive
Another wierd idea i had is a ditto type guy that can immitate the stats or a enemy model?

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Ito: a third shisai (and the existing two do seem expensive for what they do).  Their unique ability is pretty neat and I'd like to see it at maximum effect.

Other models that help out the shisai or the shisai help out - I would like to see more people play with the shisai other than just me.  Normal, unnamed acolytes would be a bonus, as the Ito Clan really lacks cheap filler bodies to get the activation count up.

 

Temple: a model with channeling that isn't Master Ekusa.  It's a faction based around Ki manipulation, yet only has one model with channeling (he's really, really good at it though).


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For the Ito the things I have missed would be a cheap shisai, somewhere in the 5-6 rice range. She would be mostly a support character I would guess. Possibly even an acolyte shisai, if that is a possibility.

Also it would be nice to have something of the Jaguar Mori clan, like Izu native ashigaru. Probably not as skilled or well equipped as the Ito ashigaru, I imagine.

For the Savage Wave I would love to see a rinsho bakemono! 

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Yinkin wrote:

For the Ito the things I have missed would be a cheap shisai, somewhere in the 5-6 rice range. She would be mostly a support character I would guess. Possibly even an acolyte shisai, if that is a possibility.

Also it would be nice to have something of the Jaguar Mori clan, like Izu native ashigaru. Probably not as skilled or well equipped as the Ito ashigaru, I imagine.

For the Savage Wave I would love to see a rinsho bakemono! 

I second that, I would like a third Shisai for the Ito, so you can have a group of three if you wished.

Savage Wave another big hitter Oni that would bring something a bit different from Zuba.

Silvermoon Syndicate an other Oyabun, Please.

By the way this is a great question

 

 

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Like Palmer said above: an laternative to Mr, Ekusa, a Channeler/Leecher (or the like).

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More unique models with innovative mechanics for all factions! :D

Other than that I think that most of the factions are complete of resources, except Wave. The Savage Wave need some reliable models of cost 9-12 and then the faction will Shine. Bodyguard for Onisho will be great.

Ideas or models I would like to see in the future:

 

Prefecture

- More sheisin Na goei :)

- Another frontline ashigaru fighter like Jin. Cost 7-8.

- A golem? (Construct with Durable trait)

 

Temple

- Dark Monk sharing faction with the Cult devil

- A Drunken Master monk

- The Monkey King

- Ki-Rin, or a Monk/Chosen Peasant mounting one.

- Kappa

- A beast Master monk

- Very Fast air monk

- ... (infinite possibilities ^^)

 

Clan

- More models like Naoko.

- A Shishai summoner that summons a Large Snake Swarm (like the cult but with other traits, slow, poison...)

- A hebimiman with Cobra head like akimoto + snake tail like kaihime/kenzo and 2 swords :D

- A scout with flank, some kind of orochi ninja.

 

Wave

- More Oni :P

- A female Oni (if exist), maybe a protective mother.

- A warchief Oni with a warcry that gives additional uses to Oni rage.

- Cheaper Nian (Im a troll :P)

- One souless model (no idea of what can be)

- A bakemono riding some kind of Beast ^^

- Named bakemono of Cost 4 that can be summoned again and again with the Horde Ki Feat.

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Temple are seriously lacking anything that packs a punch with a ranged attack. All well and good having some models with Ranged Defence or Sojobo with his special ability but cannot always take those same models all the time (I prefer variety). Also strong Temple character like Po doesn't have ranged defence (Master Monk who doesn't ?????) and I lost him in a recent game to Wasapu who at medium range rolled very well on the damage table with Rapid Fire as well. Left me sick as a dog!

For example:

STS - Kyoaku-Han Crossbow (4/8/12 range) (+1 damage) Ammo (4) (Armour Piercing)

STS - Wasapu (4/8/12 range) (+1 damage) Ammo (4) (Armour Piercing) (Rapid Fire)

Pref - Guardsman (6/12/18 range) (+4 damage) (Armour Piercing)

Pref - Minuro (6/12/18 range) (+4 damage) (Armour Piercing) (Quick reload)

Ito - Kaihime Ito (5/10/15 range) (+1 damage) (Quick reload) (Armour Piercing)

Cult - Araka (2/4/6 range), Shichiro (3/5/7 range), Harionago (2/3/4 range and or Circular Strike medium range)

Savage - Boba (3/6/9 range) or (4/8/12) (Armour Piercing)

Savage - Waka, Bobata, Bakemono Archers ....

The Temple have the Wind Kami that can range attack and if successful, and if the target is moveable, can change the facing of a target and the Fisherman who with two dice always at medium range has to spend Ki to make a ranged attack with -1 damage and Tsutsumi who (although looks cool and can't wait to get him delivered and painted up) can only Prone certain possible targets at medium range with initially 2 dice.

If the Temple aren't the sort to have serious ranged attackers then give more of them the ability to defend ranged attacks better.

I don't want to entertain about how good or bad some of these ranged attackers are for each faction, just that it would be nice to have an option for the Temple to have someone like that and make the opponent think ... rather than all armoured opponents always knowing that Temple players don't have ranged attacks that can penetrate armour or models with toughness also not having to worry about Temple players because nothing with ranged attack can generally hurt them.

Now I have a headache and am going off to eat some more bananas! smiley

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I support the previous one, for the temple: a low cost chaneler.

Still for temple, i would not request any ranged, not in the spirit, but i would take a less expensive model to bring another effect as mountain gale.
Having no ranged weapons does not only mean you have to take risks in BtB, it means you are forced to go for your fow, as you cant offer him easy shooting fields.
The tengu is great, but very expensive.
I would take a cheap model to do the same anti-shooting effect, even if he aint good at anything else.

For Pref, i would definately field some cavalry.

First because i love Takeda clan. Second because the pref lack fast models, and who else could bring the might of the dragon clan to his foes than a mounted samurai.

Finaly, not a real addition, but i would like to see a bonnus for people fielding fluff combo, as matsu and mizuchi.
Or mastu against Ito clan...

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Oh, +1 to everything Atrus said ... and maybe a Major Kami of Earth, Wind, Fire and Water with greater Ki stats to make them last a bit longer or do more damage?

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Ooo crap.
First, i was slow to post, so my post should have been right after henrix's one (wording of first sentence).
Second, i just read Artus's post, and yes yes YEs! Monkey king for temple! Dont forget the pig, the horse and everything that travels to west :-).

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I think one of the Temple focus is "no ranged attacks" or at least no lethal ones. Im happy with it, we have a lot of resources and gives a faction something unique: the lack of ranged attacks. And about Master Po, he has Toughness instead of ranged deffence that is like cancelling 1 Ranged Attack Success level, but also works for mele and poison.

What I don't want to see in the future is Everything in every faction >_<

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Atrus, If Wasapu pays 2 Ki for Vital Strike you can kiss Po's Toughness 1 goodbye as it means Sharp on the ranged attack (ignores armour and toughness). Having something that damaging with a ranged attack can be fatal. Yes, one reason I play and enjoy the Temple is because they are unique in many ways but I would like just one lethal ranged attacker for Temple that can hurt armour or toughness so if you play it you make opponent think twice. Even if it is someone who holds a bundle of spears and throws them with limited ammo?

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You are true but is wassapu's advantage and need to spend Ki, I think is fine. About a Temple ranged attacker, maybe another Monk of Fire, adult one, that throws Fireball with his Ki Feat?

Bushido its not about Killing, its about Tactic.
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Atrus, I am liking your ideas! Let us hope GCT are watching and listening. A fire throwing Monk sounds way too cool!!

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Oni with a spear. That is all.

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Greeny wrote:

Oni with a spear. That is all.

Why a spear?

Interesting ideas but i was more curious to see what people thought were the holes in their factions not a "i would love" question. surprise

"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."

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I guess the question is so hard for me because I firmly believe in faction integrity. If every faction would have access to everything, an important part of what makes a faction unique would get lost for me. Of course it is nice to have access to something your given faction isn't really known for but those instances, in my opinion, should be few and far between.

Cheers, Leo

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Like the other Itoids, a third shisai.

Otherwise, I think the existng facions have their own distinct personaties...there's no reason for each faction to have access to the same types of units, then everyone might as well play Prefecure cheeky

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Wave still seem the weakest faction, but what they are missing is a tough call, perhaps a pure killing machine that can go toe to toe with samurai on an even footing? And I like the idea of a really big spear, (first strike never entered my mind...) Cult aren't really missing anything that isn't already in the pipeline:) they are the most diverse faction though so it's seems natural they've got all the bases covered:)

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To clarify my post for master T.
Do i feel that Temple is miising something:
Yes, a low cost guy to give ranged protection

The rest where more "i'd love to" than "i miss this"

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Hmm sutch a good question.

For the Ito I too would like to see a 3rd Shisai. Maybe a cheap one maybe an even more powerfull one compared to Ayako. Also I want the Ito to have their own dragon like a Hydra, like an avatar of Orochi (a couple of snake heads and some reasonably mostrous size hmmm.) Also I would like to see another sly bastard like Itsunagi, it doesn't even matter what would he do as long as he looks like a total badass.

Edit: After seeing it mentioned I would like to give a +1 for an Ito Kunoichi I would I imagine one looking like Ayame from the Tenchu game series dual wielding Kodachi-s.

Though I'm not an active Silvermoon player I too would like to see a Gambler preferably a Mahjong rep player. Most "real" yakuza clans have their own Mahjong rep players who will gladly sit down with the other groups players and usually millions are traded at that table in cash. An ideal looking gambler would be propably some slim sly looking guy with some high quality clothes and quite a few dirty tricks in his sleeves.

(Though let me ellaborate a little on mahjong because most ppl know that quite literal TRASH solitaire type thingy. Mahjong is a game like rummy but it's quite a bit more hard to learn and play. For the gambler a suitable skill tying into mahjong would be 3 feats named :red,green and white dragon, and when you used each one at least once, then youl would be able to use a unique feat called Big Three Dragons. Sorry about this little wall of text btw. I hope it wasn't too boring. For more info on proper japanese mahjong search for Riichi mahjong and be amazed cheeky)

 

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i don't think any factions are majorly missing anything, i agree with greeny a good fighting oni in the wave, they seem to go down to quickly, and probably Sts, but they are a young faction so not really sure about them. 

the Pref i don't really know as i dont play them that much

the only thing i dislike about the temple is the gorilla, i dont think he is worth his points and i think he is to easy to take down.

i think anything the cult where missing has been plugged pretty well, with the last couple of releases.

Ito i think are one of the better balanced factions as well they can pretty much do anything you would like them to, and do it in style, 

i think that each clan should have draw backs as that makes them fun to play, if you have a few drawbacks then it makes the games more challenging and tactical as you have to exploit weaknesses to get the upper hand. if every clan is good in all areas it would be more lucky dice to decide the winner.

 

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Temple are missing sakura, 7 rice for 2/8 ki channelling, yes please. Though I heard a rumour that some of the new cards may help out with ki allocation.
Everything else in temple seems missing by design which is fine.
Maybe another monk who is more offensive? Brutal might be nice.

Savage wave needs some 6-8 and 10-12 rice models, they seem to have some big jumps in there effectiveness. Maybe some rinsho will fit in one of those and make a fully bakemono warband more viable.

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Oh and as a whole the game needs more ninja, one is never enough in an oriental fantasy game, it was the big reason we all started playing. Come on the shadow wind clan.

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Bobsan wrote:

Oh and as a whole the game needs more ninja, one is never enough in an oriental fantasy game, it was the big reason we all started playing. Come on the shadow wind clan.

Just be careful of the "Law of Diminishing Ninjas" (also called "Inverse Ninja Law")

wink

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? Must be a private joke or i'm stupid...??

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One Ninja is deadly, but in a group they are rather clumsy.

 

Go Dragon Clan!

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I would really like to see an armored Oni, complete with armored fists/knuckles able to smash, push, grab and throw his opponents out if the way like a big red bulldozer. (Right now Im converting a Bobata for that :D) So the Wave would get some controll mechanisms and an Oni able to withstand some of the more dangerous killing machines out there.

Besides that, maybe a Bakemono healer, able to heal other bake with magic and oni´s with sacrifices (like shifting life points from a bake to an oni 2:1, so you can´t permanently heal an Oni). That would increase the livespan of the oni a little bit so once they get stuck into combat they might even make it out there alive.

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Even though I like Hanso, the grizzled old veteran, I would like to see a second Gunso for Ryu. Younger, leading by example she would have Leadership, perhaps only for Ashigarus. By giving her Ki feats directly relating to Ashigarus she wouldnt really be viable for a samurai list and, depending on her fighting skills, could omit the need to bring the samurai at all.

Go Dragon Clan!

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What I would really like is a bakemono hunter/assasin. Now we have Tra peng  but I am looking for something more deadly, a cheap murderer.
The bakemono are the rulers of shadows and while all of them are sneaky I feel the bakemono need something that can give a punch reliably but keeping in touch with the wave would need some setting up to actually work. For instance bonus to melee when the opponent is surprised, or stunned. Make him weak in normal fighting but give him good boost when the fighting goes his way.

What they might need is an oni who can go toe to toe with a samurai would be nice as well.Now they just don't seem to cut it with all the rerolls and the aditional dice a samurai has. They can deal a lot of wounds if set up correctly, but really something that can handle is own would be cool as well (spear oni would be a good start) and a medium prized model (say 7 rice) who can fight without the problems of the cheap oni (agressive, impetious) or both low melee skill and stupid (tribal brutes).

For the ito some cheap model (up to 4) to fill up the points/numbers preferably a snake or something? (but the cards now already filled that partly)

For the cult I don't miss much, but ranged a kairai would be cool.
More animals for the sindicate are fun but I don't really miss anything with them.

Meavar

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GCT Master T wrote:

Interesting ideas but i was more curious to see what people thought were the holes in their factions not a "i would love" question. surprise

My apologies, I was thrilled  >_<

 

About the holes missing in the factions, in Prefecture I think that like Mr.Kaos said, another Cheap Leadership for the ashigaru is all we need.  Right now Hiro is a must when playing ahigaru heavy lists.

The Temple is very complete in my opinion. I don't think we need more defence against ranged attacks, most monks have Ranged Defense, and with the new rules of Ranged shots Yumi is awesome in front line.

Ito Clan I agree that it only needs the 3th shisai for feel complete.

Wave is the most needed of new troops. Filling the gaps of 9-12 rice with reliable models in the battlefield would be greatly appreciated.

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I'm very new to the game, but would love to see a zen archer character for Ro Kan (although I wonder if the addition of such a character might disrupt balance since they lack ranged for the most part).

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Welcome aryus, I like your thinking. Having searched images of zen archers that quite a few images look SO Ro-Kan (some look Pref and some Ito!!??) that I think they would certainly fit in looks if based around a peasant type character or some other form linked to the Temple. The issue on here seems to be the general consensus is most don't want the Temple having proper ranged weapons really because some see it as upsetting the balance/making factions too much the same ... would be cool though but best leave it to the powers that be!! Enjoy the game anyway.

 

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In my case, I'm very pleased with the Cult, I find almost no holes in the faction. They are provided of almost every resource in the game. There are a couple of melee models that can stand alone against 4MS models and tear down enemies. There are many very evasive models (MS3 + dodge). Some really tough ones also. There are fast and mobile ones. A pretty bunch of ranged attacks (Cult style: close and deadly, yet not so since the change). A pack of "gazers". Much fear, poisoning, fire, auto disengage, summonings, crowd control, camouflage, lightfooted, souless, brainwash, toughness,...  Maybe special attack and defense disposal is their biggest drawback. I mean range of options rather than quantity. There's a good bunch of "combo attack" and "sidestep defense", but in overall each model has one or none to choose from. I'm happy with that while traits and ki feats accomplish the very same goal.

I believe their main hole would be that, in sheer melee ability, they are inferior to other faction models of the same rice cost, so they need to work together in the battlefield. Even in that issue they have models such as Wraith and in a lower basis Gok. I beleive the Cult should never be given some "Monk" or "Samurai" arquetype model, as it would entirely break the Cult's essence.

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Atrus wrote:

The Temple is very complete in my opinion. I don't think we need more defence against ranged attacks, most monks have Ranged Defense, and with the new rules of Ranged shots Yumi is awesome in front line.

.

Not sure i follow you
Ekusa, yumi have ranged def (2)
Suchio (1)
Riku, kenko, po, koji, tsutsumi, aiko have nothing
That's far from beeing "most". Ans yumi maybe good at detering RS2, her ability is less than certain when facing RS3 shooters.
Thats why i really would need a 6-8 rice mini, sucking in btb (u cant have everything), but with a big umbrella.
I would be glad with The tengu, but he is sooooo expensive, it's a real limitation at 35rice.

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Ito is missing Sixth Sense. While Camouflage isn´t that much of a problem since the errata (read Bikou not killing everything she aims at), it seems a tad strange that the twitchy high pitched snake clan doesn´t have it.

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MattT wrote:

Ito is missing Sixth Sense. While Camouflage isn´t that much of a problem since the errata (read Bikou not killing everything she aims at), it seems a tad strange that the twitchy high pitched snake clan doesn´t have it.

Hmm, yes, I can see a hebi-samurai with a serpent's tremor sense having Sixth Sense. Not sure I would call it something the Ito are missing, but it would fit! :)

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Having seen plenty of what is coming along in the near future im very happy with whats going on smiley

I would say there is scope to explore the rat theme of the cult with a giant rat, some thing to enable a full rat force to be fielded perhaps.

Itowise i could see a snake swarm, something cheap and summonable to tie up enemy fighters like the rats n monkeys etc

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Orochi wrote:

Just be careful of the "Law of Diminishing Ninjas" (also called "Inverse Ninja Law")

Its called "Conservation of Ninjitsu"  ;)

There is only so much Ninjitsu in a room, if you send 10 ninjas to kill someone then they only have a 1/10th of the ninjitsu so are easily defeated.

If you send 1 ninja, he has all the ninjitsu so is a deadly and indestructible enemy.

This is confirmed by hundreds of movies, whenever ninjas attack in hordes (Last Samurai, The Hunted) they die easily but lone Ninja are almost terminator-like in their abilities (American Ninja, Also The Hunted...)

 

As a corollary to this, if a room has no ninjas all the ninjitsu is actually in one ninja who uses it to hide very well...

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Malhorme wrote:
Atrus wrote:

The Temple is very complete in my opinion. I don't think we need more defence against ranged attacks, most monks have Ranged Defense, and with the new rules of Ranged shots Yumi is awesome in front line.

Not sure i follow you Ekusa, yumi have ranged def (2) Suchio (1) Riku, kenko, po, koji, tsutsumi, aiko have nothing That's far from beeing "most". Ans yumi maybe good at detering RS2, her ability is less than certain when facing RS3 shooters. Thats why i really would need a 6-8 rice mini, sucking in btb (u cant have everything), but with a big umbrella. I would be glad with The tengu, but he is sooooo expensive, it's a real limitation at 35rice.

 

There are 7 forntline fighters in the Temple: Sojobo, Master Po, Suchiro, Shisa, Kenko, Yumi and Riku. Sojobo has Mountain Gale, Master Po has Toughness, Suchiro, Kenko (he also has) and Yumi has ranged defense, Shisa is durable, and the only one without "ranged defense of some kind is Riku, but he is cheap as hell for a warrior monk. Even the support monks: Ekusa has ranged defense 2, and Koji and Aiko are Small.

Hotaru doesn't have, but is not a front liner. The peasants don't have ranged defense also. Kitsune is small in fox form, and also has Mirage. The Kami are durable...

14 models of 23 have some kind of ranged defense. And you can use Kami for cover, Yumi for threatening cover against ranged attacks, and Sojobo for virtual immunity.

I think that we are well served against ranged attacks, still better with the new rules. Exhausted do not modify the dificulty, and we can fight against surprise with Kintaru, and Monkeys.

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Riku has Wall of Water.  Be behind it for some ranged protection.

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Cult is lacking only some form of generic cultist type. Cheap cheerful (miserable ?) conspiracy fodder that allows 2 per card.

There are lots of specialists and no generalists, but that's not a problem, more a feature.

Silvermoon appear to have everything and just need strength in depth.

The Gaki may just be the single greatest creation of Master T.

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As a Wave-player from the very beginning i do miss the group-activation of the bakemono-horde from time to time.

I can see why it has been cut, but a comeback of the command-trait would be great.

A leaching(maybe even draining) Bakemono would also be a great tactical option.

Channel would be nice but that might be a little over the top...

 

 

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Ret-Kenton wrote:

Cult is lacking only some form of generic cultist type. Cheap cheerful (miserable ?) conspiracy fodder that allows 2 per card. There are lots of specialists and no generalists, but that's not a problem, more a feature.

I think Kairais are more than enough as cheap generic troops. Among Cultists, I see that Gengo is particularly generic. Without any traits excepct conspiracy, no special abilites (strong attack in a MS 2 models is sort of fluff and not model defining) and just a lonely Ki feat that only affects Kairais. Can't imagine something more generic than that. 4 rice for a 6 wound model with absolutely no traits or abilities rather than conspiracy? If we check Sichiro, reducing his cost to 4 would turn him into something similar.

Cult is based on specialists, and I beleive players would really appreciate other kind of troops that encouraged players to use new tactics and combinations.

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