Terrain density

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Ithil
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Terrain density

Good day all.

I played a game as the KKZ and we decided with the other player to test a map with a bit more terrain than usual.

Here is what the map looked like.

 [URL=http://www.image-share.com/ijpg-3929-50.html][IMG]http://www.image-share.com/upload/3929/50m.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

At the end of turn 2, my opponent (ITO) capitulated. I fear we went overboard with the terrain density. He said he could not manage to engage the ninja or target them whith his shisai.

What do you guys think?

 

Ithil
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Pierre Roques

Ret-Stigandr
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We used to put a lot of terrain on the board too in the beginning.

my friend played KKZ against my Prefecture.

I didn't have to capitulate in turn 2 (it was always a bit later), but those were very unpleasant games.

they were so frustrating that I still don't want to face his ninjas again.

At some point I'll have to (my friend should be able to use is miniatures), but we won't be going overboard with terrain again.

Ret-Fleafa
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Remove the Warhammer trees, and you should be OK in New Dawn.
In Risen Sun, I'd also remove the barrels/crates which separate the objectives, and the bamboo.

Ithil
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Thank you for your answer. Much appreciated.

 

We did paly with RS rules, I should have specified.

Pierre Roques

Ret-Aenion
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A good rule is to have about 6 pcs of terrain on the board, you can add scatter terrain (small lanterns, walkways) but then determine that it doesn't provide cover or any other special rules.

This is especially important when facing KKZ (I'm Ret-Stigandr's regular opponent), they love anything that gives them the least bit of cover.

Ret-Gitsapalooza
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I like heavy terrain as I think it makes the games far more interesting and visually appealing.  That being said I rarely put terrain in-between objectives.  I would have probably pulled the black crates and two of the trees/bamboo & then rearranged the rest so there wasn't quite so much terrain near the objectives.  So you'd have 4 large structures and 3 smaller pieces to kind of fill in the gaps.

This begs the question though.  Is this really a problem with terrain, or a problem with the KKZ?

Bushido Battle Reports on my YouTube channel, Gitsapalooza: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPmpPGpuB5lKk42BZQ58clg

Axiam
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I don't think the problem is with the ninjas or the terrain but with people thinking they can engage the sneaky ninjas in the same way as other clans. Against ninjas you need to exploit the gaps in their defensive line, move in groups and force the ninja player to engage in your terms with careful placement of robust characters to restrict the assassin effect. It isn't easy against a good ninja player and I'm curious about how the double pass tokens affects the game now but the ninja player's limited model count makes it hard for them to acquire scenario points and cause problems for you at the same time so exploit those weaknesses.
Admittedly this is easier for some lists than others and the amount of knock down ninjas can bring can be tricky to deal with for some lists.

Axiam

Ret-Aenion
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Lately Ret-Stigandr and I have been playing KKZ vs Ito Shisai regularly.

First thing to note about KKZ is that they are unforgiving, to both the player and the opponent. Any mistake or opening will be punished. As much as KKZ player needs to learn how to use his warband effectively, the opponent needs to learn how to play against them. This is by no means easy because KKZ are a bag of tricks that can change even with the same models in the warband.

Shisai and KKZ actually counter each other very well. In Risen Sun an Ayako list has very easy access to Sixth Sense on their entire list via Virtue tokens and some very dangerous models. Shisai with Sixth Sense, can steal activations, steal Ki, give Dead Sentence markers and load the ninja's up with nasty poison tokens. Kaihime with Sixth Sense and 3 Blood of Orochi tokens speaks for itself. Yatsumata with Sixth Sense is just mean ;)
At the same time, a shisai list consists of some very squishy models with little armour and only 5 wounds and it depends heavily on Ayako. When she gets jumped, things can go downhill fast. There are ways to protect her, Jade Mamba, Child of Orochi or Kazuhiko but you need to be able to fit them in your list.

yenohoney