Is there a future for Ito?

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Ito_Vlad's picture
Joined: 24/08/2019
Is there a future for Ito?

What lists of Ito are competitive?
I’ve almost finished with painting my warband:

- Itsunagi
- Mizuki
- Haruki
- Ishi
- Isas
- Chiyo
- Cobra

But. I look at the profiles of new Minimoto, Yuta, Wolves... and feel a lot of frustration about Ito Clan.
So lack of flexibility. So lack of efficiency. I don’t mind if new models are strong and have a good synergy. But it feels so unfair, because Ito really sucks in that.
You can just compare Ito Kinu with one of the new Yuta - Akuba.
18 rice for Kinu - ONE Ki Feat and weak shooting. Kinu sucks against Soulless enemies or with good Ki Stats. And needs a lot of support.
14 rice for Akuba - SIX Ki Feats and good shooting. She just can summon 10 rice cost very solid fighter and return most of her price back. With 5 other feats she can play with almost any opponent. Also she brings a really good buff for part of your warband (Gashadokuro).
Do you feel differences too?
Am I wrong?

But let’s back to my first question. Can Ito have an efficient list, that will have fair chances against most of other factions?

Joined: 10/09/2018

I dont know if you are adding the equipment for Kinu and the theme for Akuba but Kinu is normally 16 rice and Akuba 15 so not a really big difference. What is the difference on the shooting part? Same rangeband, same damage and "only" the one die difference.
As for the Ki feats: Akuba is good but without other Yuta she is kinda useless. So you would need at least 2 of them and that is 30 points for them. With slow Move 3 she cant reach objectives until the end of turn 2 and the earliest point on turning objectives is start of turn 3. Kinu has Move 5 and can reach it one entire turn earlier.

For survivability Ito is way better. With Golden sentinels and other really competent fighters you can kill way better than the Cult. I must admit the Gashadokuro are way over the top for 10 rice and one even can be re-summoned.

I had a game yesterday via the TTS and the Yuta just wreak havoc among my opponent. But when one model breached through my wall of Gashadokuro one of the witches died immediatly. 

Ito_Vlad's picture
Joined: 24/08/2019
With their new theme Akuba costs 14 rice. Gashadokuro are great, but I think it’s better idea to recruit just two of them and summon the third one during the first turn. Re-summon looks less interesting. True, she doesn’t look strong enough without another Yuta - so we need at least 28 rice for two models. Bit Kinu also needs at least one other Shisai and that would be at least 31 rice Sure, Kinu needs her 2 cost upgrade, if she wants do something with her Ki Feat One die means a lot. And Akuba has heal if her shooting was successful. About movement - I don’t think it’s so good advantage. Yes, Kinu could be around objective a little bit early. And... okey, I guess. But she can’t do missions and use her Feat during the same turn. Also I don’t think it’s good idea to spend 18 rice on... turning objectives. What about Golden sentinels? I’ve never looked at them, because they don’t suit the Blessed theme and I don’t see the point to use Shissai in another, cause other themes are quite weak and do practically nothing.
Joined: 05/04/2018
It depends on what you are looking to play with Ito. I have played a lot of Lords of Ito and they are solid, even against the new models. The bonus for Lords of Ito get you blood or orochi 2 so you can hand out some poison attacks. Extra leadership to help with pesky fear rolls, and best of all your poison will bypass tough in the end phase. Really very strong. For figures you can only run Samurai, Ashiguri, and Ronin Kami, and Snakes. My favored list is: Satoshi Masunagi Takeji Jirou Chiyo Okyo Archer Temple Bushi The list hits hard with Masunagi and Takeji really being the damage dealers. Satoshi can do damage but he is there to stem the tide as he can boost his Parry to Parry 2. Jirou supports all the low cost figures with inspiration... He is also a decent fighter and has leadership. Chiyo give you mobility with couldwalk and Okoyo Archer range attack which can be nicely buffed with Jirou and Blood of Orochi. The Bushi is a nice addition and objective flipper that can be boosted by Jirou too should the archer fall or does not have a target. I have been playing a different version with Itsunagi but it has some issues but allows 10 points for equipment, if my math is right. Itsunagi Satoshi Masunagi Takeji Jade Mamba Guard Jade Mamba Guard A Jade Mamba to bodyguard each Samurai. Good times and the list hits pretty hard and has good armor. Again I am not as familiar with the Blessed lists and Shishai in general. The Shishai lists are difficult and I will have to work on them once I get more figures. But Ito is far from being underpowered or not flexible. The Blessed yes but Ito overall, no.
Ito_Vlad's picture
Joined: 24/08/2019

Sorry, but I think, that these bonuses of Lord’s theme suck and don’t worth to play around.
Thank you for your advices anyway
About your lists - I suppose, they wouldn’t have a chance against new Minimoto. Perhaps, it’s good idea to look at them more. With such Ito samurai list I don’t like their vulnerability to magic. Also 5 wounds with 2 armor are not so tough. Against them Shisai would be perfect choice I suppose haha. Just kill all of them with poison

Meavar's picture
Joined: 12/12/2013

While I have no problem playing with the ito, and they work quite well in my mind.

To me Cult is the bigger issue as they are becoming to big and losing their previous issues.
They used to have problems getting cheapish melee 3 rice models. Kairai where though but slow, now they have 10 points normal speed melee 3 though guys.
They used to have very little shooting, now they gained some reasonably good shooting abilities.
And then the yuta 14 or 15 points, for their job they don't really need speed. A 3 ranged archer with 2 ki, and fear might be a bit expensive without a way to boost the shooting although not having reload makes up for a lot. 
A 14 or 15 point shugenja, with a whole host of ki feats and 2 ki, would need thinking before including, but depending on the ki feats would be used.
Combine them and they become a good option. Ad in the shared ki and they become quite good when used together.
Give them each another bonus to another part of the list (none of which really had problems) (regenerate 2 cost 2 ki and 2 rice for the monks) 
Ad in the extra healing, the bonusses to the rest of the warband and they become insane. 
You pay 2 rice and 2 ki for regenerate for 1 model with special cards, now you practically get it for free for around around 2 to 4 models as the yuta is well worth it's points even without it.
And I disagree you need to field all 3 for them to be usefull.
A 2 ki archer with the option to give one bleed fire and poison marker and give all barakumin regenerate is well worth it.
Give it another 5 ki feats including instant killing a controlled model at a decent range in a faction with lot's of acces to control and give ki in return makes it even better. 

I do agree that some power creep seems to be the case.  Although it is more than that, kinu is also quite a new model ((and a good comparison with the yatu.
Sure she it a lot faster, but is worse in nearly every other way:
She has similar (arguably less powerfull) support for the rest of the warband: 1 poison versus 1 regenerate
She has arguably less defenses (less options for bodyguard and certainly no bodyguard who also makes their ki feats cheaper, no fear, no inbuild healing, but aware and melee skill can't be reduced by states, neither of which is that usefull for her in my experience)
She is arguably a worse archer (lower ranged skill although she can boost)
She has less ki generation options  (no dealing wounds for extra ki, or a ki feat to gain bonus ki, or sharing ki)
She has a very good ki feat, but as a complex action you need someone to bodyguard her, and probably also want the boost from a nearby shisai further increasing her cost (not just for the other models but also for the card)
The yuta have two cheap ki feats nearly copying the few effects of kinu has over them (poison and aware (with six sense is usually better than aware and not just poison but also bleed and fire)
They have 2 more powerfull ki feats (darkness and unholy vitality) Both won't see use every game but can change the game in some cases. 
And then each of them has 2 more ki feats, usually one powerfull one and one situational one.
Overall this makes them slightly better than Kino (who probably should have had her boost card for free)
To me would mean they would each cost about 2 maybe 3 rice more.

And I would rarely field all 3 as I agree that is a lot of points it does seem to work,
I prefer just Josei in a controll list or maybe adding shojo and a bunch of barakumin who will use cultist freely works wonders.

And Cult already has so many different options some others which are already really good, and these guys just heighten what the rest already does very well often.
I really feel Cult is slightly better than most other factions unless you build specifically against them.


Joined: 06/06/2020
Hi. I usually play versus Ito with Cult and.... Maybe I m just stupid but unless I play a death and decay list, it s very difficult for me to play versus Ito. Ok in turn one or two it s ok but after, when Ito is able to go in melee, it s over. Too high melee value, armour, prowess, dodge.... Without Kato for me it s like impossible mission. And play only Ikyrio shoot is a little bit boring for me and my opponent I think. Finally I found Ito a very good faction, as all samouraï are.
kotep's picture
Joined: 23/01/2015

There's definitely power creep with new models, and in my opinion Itsunagi is getting outclassed by other 25 rice models. To be honest, it's actually even in models in the 14-19 rice range as well. I haven't given up yet, but it's getting tougher for Ito.