What am I doing wrong here

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kevinvikstrom
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What am I doing wrong here

Hi all!

So I've been playin for about 4 months now with maybe 10-12 games behind me. So currently I'm running these types of list:

Oda
Tautulo
Manu
Dafukaia
Tsubaki
2 x Dogs or Wasupu
 

Oda does what he does mostly just following the group of Butos giving them that extra action or making special attacks cheaper. Tsubaki doles out stupid and grabs objectives while dogs harass and block opponents. Tautulo seems as if he would kill some models but strangely enough he just doesn't get the dice needed (migh be me going up against tougher targets. Manu throws and pushes people if he manages to stay alive. He dies every time despite 3 defence rolls and push defence or throw defence from Odas instructions. Dafukaia kills larger threats at times if he's not locked up in melee by something silly such as tiny monkeys or zombies.

or:

Harukichi
Manu
Dafukaia
Tsubaki
Wasupu
2x Dogs

To me these lists seem somewhat good as Most of my models can stay on the board for quite a long while. Harukichi usually focuses the first round to get his ki up and then follows the group on turn 2. Dogs simply harass and tie up models to avoid getting beaten in the face by say master Po or a bad ass samuraij. Tsubaki on the other hand runs the objectives and doles out stupid when she can and usually gets eaten alive by something that's annoyed by her. Problem is that Manu won't really kill anything bigger. Dafukaia has that posibility usually pinging the last points fire. Wasupu is the biggest hit or miss of the lot as he sometimes just straight out murders people or wiffs all rolls and just costed me 6 points.

So my question here is how would people play these lists? Should I pick out Wasupu or the dogs for Zo to be able to channel ki to my butos or dafukaia? Am I going overboard with this manu hard hitters? Another thought was to try a control list using Hanami and Tsubaki dropping Manu and keeping Dafukaia any thoughts on this?

 

minoa
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Couple questions. What's the total rice your gaming group plays to? Do you have the special card packs?

Your 1st list isn't much different from what I'm running. I'm running an Iron Fist Gumi list. Here's my take.

Once Oda gets in position, he should be doing BOTH ordering butos and handing out a jumo token.

Manu really is a monster. Much better as the active model due to the mind games he plays but still a monster. Besides the advantages his stats bring, the threat of throwing people is the key. Throw as much as you can! Throw, prone, throw, prone. Try to prone 2 models at a time. Crack heads together as much as possible. Your opponent will eventually get tired of getting off the ground and start attacking to fend off the throw. Then that is when you attack. Also remember as the active model, you get your attack before the throw. Nothing sweeter than bitch slapping someone for a wound or two then throwing their ass on the ground to add insult to injury.

Tautolu. 2nd hardest hitter behind Malosi. Yes he lacks dice but so do 95% of the inhabitants of the Jwar Isles. Learnng to use the mechanics of the game to manage your opponent's dice is more important than having a good profile. Here's how I use him. Play aggressively. Charge with him. The +2 to your strength is the key. His feat is useless, too situational. His ki is for ki boosts when he's exhausted or if you want to boost on the charge to try to kill outright. You will kill most 2 dice models (that includes better fighters who are exhausted, proned, surprised, etc). 3 dice in attack, with brutal 1, a jumo token fuelled powerful attack, strength bonus from the charge, and his natural +2 strength will easily kill any scout/support/grunt. +7 to his strength is the key. At a success level of 1 or 2, even with a below average damage roll, you'll do enough damage to force the model to be played defensively. Success level of 3 or more and they're dead. Yes you might whiff an attack but more often than not you'll kill. Try it, you'll be surprised. Remember to keep his ki to use after he is exhausted. That along with his armour, toughness, and wound count will keep him alive.

How do you use your animals? Sick 'em on those pesky monkeys you mentioned.

Monks are a tough faction for the obvious reasons (4 dice monks with cheap ki boosts). I'm not sure of Wasupu against them though, too much range defense. Old Zo is great against them, plenty of ki being spent to fuel your butos.

Remember to circle around your opponent during melees when starting BTB to set up surprise attacks by other models. 2 or 3 dice monks with no ki usage are manageable.

I always play an iron fist gumi list. The 2nd jumo token is a must to keep options open. Worst part of the Iron Fist Gumi list is no Old Zo or Genzai (for some reason I love this guy). Hope this helps. Good luck!

kevinvikstrom
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Thanks for your answer exactly what I wanted from this post :)
I tend to have 2-3 "upgrade cards" and we usually play 50p games. Usually the ki test 6 or no action card (Can't remember the name of it) is in play or inside information. The extra Ki generation is usually on Harukichi to maximize his rerolls.

I didn't realise that you actually get the attack before the throw as the active model.. but it does make sense. I just bought Zo so maybe I'll givve him a try soon. When it comes to dogs i tend to look at what's coming my way. If I need to I'll get the monkeys but main objective for them is to tire out and minimize enemy heavy hitters.

On the subject of Tautulo how does he get +7 strength? I must have missed something here :)

minoa
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Bought loyalty and inside information are good special cards but I've moved on from them. 1 card I never leave out of a list though is Maneki-Neko. Bought loyalty, one use, =ok. Inside information, one use, =ok. Maneki-Neko, one use per turn, =great! You'll always need to reroll 1 dice a turn. Always. Plus it's one of the few ways the damage roll can be manipulated in the game. Old Zo always gets Daikokuten's Coin String when I take him. Our game group plays to 55 rice and I'm always trying out different cards that normally aren't taken. I'll post my current lists and ideas in another thread.

Unless I have Sukuratchi's feat on them or nothing better for them to do, I use the animals on everything other than my opponent's heavy hitters. Ashigaru, Shatei, weaker Monks and the like are prime targets for them. I find the heavy hitters kill them too easily but they can survive a couple rounds against mid to low tier fighters.

Tautolu starts off with +2 to his strength because it's on his profile card (at the bottom of the card to the left of his special abilities). Then he can add +3 strength for his Powerful Attack special ability. Then, when any model charges, they get +2 strength for a charging bonus. 2+3+2=7. Now go forth my student, and with this knowledge, may you kill many enemies of the STS. Mawhahah mawhahaha mawhahahahaha!

Axiam
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I don't play STS but I'm very tempted primarily because of how good Manu is. Not only can he be devastating on offence, against weakened opponents, with his +2 dmg str but he can also baby sit Oda and Hanami, regardless of the direction he is facing, thanks to having aware and throw defence. Use Oda to load him up with jumo for efficiency in throwing enemies around and take advantage of being free to bodyguard again. He sees through camouflage, has immovable (or steady on steroids as I like to call it) so its impossible for opponents to control or avoid him and Hanami can wander up to the prone models Manu leaves lying around and use her command ki feat, without having to worry about being in combat with them or losing disguise.

Axiam

kevinvikstrom
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Though I'd update on this.. so yesterday I had a game against one of the players in Umea and asked him to point out when I do dumb stuff. We came up with a sort of game plan that seems to work. My years of playing other games always benefitted from being super agressive. Something that has not worked out. So one of the games yesterday where manu and Tautolo only threatened but never initiated turned out quite well. Po was to scared to enter combat and a mistake by my opponent lost him akari early on. Zo and harukichi are beasts in Ki handling giving both many and tautulo full ki early on. Just one question to you guys and women out there. How do you choose attack and defence dicewise. I still struggle with this as it is super situational and I'm always scared of getting hit hard by let's say Po, akari or Kyuubi

minoa
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Po scared to enter combat? Never thought I'd hear that. I'm also curious about your opponent's list. I thought most lists only have 1 master monk due to rice cost. Interesting.

As far as allocating dice, it really is situational and about what you are trying to do on the board. General thought is always roll at least 1 defence dice. I don't always do it because 1) I like you, play aggressive, and 2) The Five Fortunes always smile upon my STS, I don't need defense!

Axiam
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I generally err on the side of defence, if attacked because a dead model is no use to anyone. Manu can be great at this as he can fling people around while defending. I usually go more aggressive if I've depleted an opponents M&S and have successfully surprised or frightened an opponent. Tautulo will do heavy damage when an opponent is likely to roll lower than usual thanks to limited dice so could go all three offensive if the opponent is frightened and exhausted/forced to be defensive.

Axiam

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I really shouldn't use my phone's predictive keyboard to comment on this uneditable forum haha. The above post is atrocious!

Axiam

Ret-MattT
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A bit of threadomancy here, but I also tend to be biased in dice allocation, to the point of over much defense. Something I am trying to improve :) I believe a key in this area is to weight it against the number of wounds on average the opposing guy would make? If you place at least one die in defense assume that they will have a SL of 2 per die above you and you get a rough number. Obviously this doesn´t work if you don´t defend where SL 5 is more reasonable.

So, if your guy is a Buto you can get away with about 1-2 undefended fights per game. This is not insignificant as Buto can hit hard if they only get the dice. Say Tautolu doesn´t defend and just swings away with Powerful attack against a random MS3 guy. If they defend with one die you can expect SL 2 with Melee Strength +5, meaning 5 wounds on the average before armour for an expected loss of 2 before the Toughness deduction.

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