Harukichi rerolls

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ork56
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Harukichi rerolls

Looking for some clarification on Fortunes Favour ki feat.

It says you can only reroll tests, so no reroll of damage dice?

is melee exchange classed as a test? As it is not an opposed or target test in the strictest terms and the melee instructions don't ever seem to call it a test?

in the section on ki feats it says that any effect etc which affects a dice roll must be done before the roll? Does this mean you have to spend ki prospectively to allow potential re rolls if you desire?- this seems wrong?

i know it's a good feat, but I don't want it to be too good (or too bad)

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Ret-CrazyFish
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Ok, let's look at your questions one at a time:

ork56 wrote:

It says you can only reroll tests, so no reroll of damage dice?

Correct.  The damage roll is not a test, so you cannot reroll damage dice using Fortune's Favour.

ork56 wrote:

is melee exchange classed as a test? As it is not an opposed or target test in the strictest terms and the melee instructions don't ever seem to call it a test?

In fact, Melee is an opposed test.  It isn't explicitly mentioned in the Melee rules section, but it is stated as such in the Cards section of the rulebook.  Rule 3a reads: "Melee Skill (MS).  This is the number of dice the model uses when resolving an Opposed Melee test."

ork56 wrote:

in the section on ki feats it says that any effect etc which affects a dice roll must be done before the roll? Does this mean you have to spend ki prospectively to allow potential re rolls if you desire?- this seems wrong?

Here's how it works.  Fortune's Favour is an Active Ki Feat with an 8" aura.  During your turn, Harukichi can spend 2 Ki to activate Fortune's Favour.  Then, from that point until the end of the turn, any time a model within the 8" aura (NOTE: within does not mean completely within, so even if a piece of the model's base is within 8") rolls dice for a test, you can spend X Ki to force X dice to be rerolled.  Also note, all rerolls need to be declared at the same time for a model, so you can't spend 1 Ki at a time to selectively force rerolls.

Does that make sense?

Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard, be evil!

ork56
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Joined: 03/06/2014

Thanks for the clarifications.

one I missed was you cannot reroll one by one

The other bit I was confused with is about when you can use feats to reroll. It's just after the part on instant and active ki feats, it says they cannot be used to affect dice already rolled. I guess this means that fortunes favour must already be in play, but you can choose if you want to spend or rerolled after the test has been made?

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Ret-CrazyFish
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Active and Instant Ki Feats can be used before dice are rolled (Step 2 of the Melee Exchange) and Instant Ki Feats can be used before the damage roll (Step 8 of the Melee Exchange).

So to specifically answer your question, if you want to use a Ki Feat to be able to force a reroll it will need to be done during Step 2 (before dice are rolled), or it will have to be done before the Melee exchange has started.  For example, if you are the active player, you could play Fortune's Favour during Step 2 (even if Harukichi isn't the activated model).  Also, since it is an aura, once it is played it stays in effect for the rest of the turn.

Additionally, there are no Ki Feats that will say something to the effect of "play this Ki Feat to force a reroll".  Instead, you will see the Ki Feat grant a rerolling Trait (for example, Martial Prowess) which can then be used during Step 5 of the Melee Exchange.  Otherwise, Traits that a model naturally has can also be used in Step 5 - this is where most rerolling comes from.

Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard, be evil!

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KABOCHA
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Jumping into the conversation (and because ork56 is one of my opponents). If Harukichi's aura is active, then he has to spend ki for re-rolls before the dice are rolled, correct?

He can't wait to see what the results are, then pay for re-rolls?

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GCT Master T
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Actually as long as the aura is up he can wait to see the results of the roll before spending to reroll. 

"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."

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GCT Master T wrote:

Actually as long as the aura is up he can wait to see the results of the roll before spending to reroll. 

Interesting...devil
Not that I've recently acquired some SMTS, oh no no no no...wink

ork56
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Joined: 03/06/2014

@Kabocha-that's precisely the interaction I was puzzling over.

but it seems that as long as FF is in play, then you can okay a Ki to reroll a dice after you have seen them rolled, but if you might want to reroll more than 1, you have to pay for all in advance of rolling any.

i guess if you get what you want with the first reroll, then you don't have to force the other rolls?

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Basically you pay for the rerolls at the point you would be able to reroll with a trait. 

"To a real warrior, power perceived may be power achieved."

minoa
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As I understand it, you have to buy the rerolls (your's and your opponent's) at the same time but follow the reroll rules for the order of being rerolled... Example

After FF is already bought and paid for, you both roll dice. You decide you want him to reroll 1 dice and to reroll 2 yourself. You pay 3 ki to force 3 rerolls. He then rerolls first, per the reroll rules. Even if you already like the outcome after just the first reroll, you might as well reroll the 2 you picked up, as they've already been paid for.... And I'm not sure if you have the option to NOT reroll dice that have been paid to reroll. Have to check on that part...

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Ret-Ruro
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An other small point just to make everything crystal clear.

You don't have to reroll the exact number you paid for right? For example I buy 3 rerolls but decide to only reroll 2 when I see how those two came out.

And what if I just can't reroll anything like let's say the two models fought with MS2 and I rerolled all 4 dice already but i actually brought 5 rerolls (which is just plain stupid but still)?

 

minoa
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Actually, after reading Master T's post, it sounds like you CAN pay for rerolls at 2 different times. You can't pay for the rerolls 1 at a time but you can split it up between his rerolls (to be rerolled first per the reroll rules) and your own (which get rerolled second). Example

If your model had feint(1) and martial prowess(1), your feint would kick in first because it forces your opponent to reroll first. Then you have the option of using martial prowess if you still wanted.

In this example, FF is a little better because you can save ki on unwanted rerolls of your own dice. Thoughts?

D_Arquebus
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Joined: 19/04/2016

Hey All,

Necro here but it is relevant to the discussion of Haruchiki and his rerolls/ feats. :)

 

My search answered my first question: that the 'Fortune's Favour' reroll/s works like any other reroll with the appropriate timing as per the rulebook.

I assume the Instant Ki feat "Cheat Fate' has the 'set' result added into the dice prior to the beginning of the rerolls as well? So you could spend 5 Ki to get a 6 (X+1) and then the opponent could force a reroll of that dice if they had such an ability?

 

Also note, all rerolls need to be declared at the same time for a model, so you can't spend 1 Ki at a time to selectively force rerolls

The above indicates that once you decide to pay for the X number of rerolls they are all rolled at once and you cannot for example spend 4 Ki and then (re)roll the dice 1 by 1 until you are happy with the result and choose not to reoll the last few? This is the way I understand it should work but the questions above seemed to indicate a question on this point.

Cheers :)

D_Arquebus
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Additional tangentially related question on the Rakki: (sorry for double - re edit etc).

Whose DIce can be affect?

It says when a "player". So can you force the substituted dice onto your oppoent? FOr example, you roll a 1 and want to 'gift' this to your opponent? :P

The first part says "a player" and "these dice". Indicating it could be either you or your opponent. The second part refers to "a player" but specifically says "your dice".

Timing?

Similar question re Haruchiki. The result is added prior to any rerolls and there is no exclusion for the opponent to force a further rerolls to the result post adding the 'special dice result'

Cheers :)

D_Arquebus
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Joined: 19/04/2016

Additional tangentially related question on the Rakki: (sorry for double - re edit etc).

Whose DIce can be affected?

It says when a "player". So can you force the substituted dice onto your oppoent? FOr example, you roll a 1 and want to 'gift' this to your opponent? :P

The first part says "a player" and "these dice". Indicating it could be either you or your opponent. The second part refers to "a player" but specifically says "your dice".

Timing?

Similar question re Haruchiki. The result is added prior to any rerolls and there is no exclusion for the opponent to force a further rerolls to the result post adding the 'special dice result'

Cheers :)

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