Yatsumata

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Raynzy
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Yatsumata

Thoughts and opinions, im quite liking this model, indomitable and lightening reflexes as standard is Genius 

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It's...strange. Not quite what I was expecting but still looks pretty cool. Yes indomitable and lightning reflexes(which is strangely written as Lightning Strike surprise) seem pretty cool. But I'm kinda wierded out by how it doesn't have Ki feats. But it surprises me more that it doesn't have any Blood of Orochi, and instead has a standard Poison trait(though it's quite high).

From it's lore snippet I thought it will have some way to shut off Toughness on enemy models, but turns out it's "just" a potent 2/1 Poison. The Unique Effects seem pretty good though they are only usable when it's the active model so that can become a problem(no sidestep defense when the enemy hits it).The +1MS and Feint(1) is a nice bonus, it makes short work on models that are already Frightened(at least hopefully they are).

All in all without any BoO Yatsumata fills a completly different role then I had imagined it will blush. I'm now thinking about building a list around it, using some more Fear inducing models.(Considering Matsunagi and Akimoto/Naoko).

Raynzy
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i do like the fact that its very self sufficient, i cannot wait to get in on the table because i think its a very legit model. No BoO is somthing but we have enough of that we can bring or buy the card for extra tokens 

 

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My only little dissapointment with the model is that it doesn't have Sixth Sense. I really hoped for some pretty good SS model for the Ito to deal with all that damn camouflage(I'm looking at you Bikou angry). Well it's still a pretty unique addition to the faction so all is well.(And I absolutely love the sculpt.)

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I don't know how to fit him in, because he's quite expensive but he's a cheaper Itsunagi replacement i think. He does similar things while being more resilient but giving up a bit of Itsunagi offensive power (combo strike and boost mostly) and ki defences (strong mind, iron mind). I like it.

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Raynzy
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Yeah Sixth sense is something i was hoping for, a trait we are really lacking in faction

 

Atrus
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This snake is a monster. 4 dice + Free Feint + Poison 2!! and Fast and Resilient!!

For me is a combat machine. I liked it a lot.

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Thing to consider about Yatsumata: Unique effect says once per activation, but it doesn't say his activation so i think it refers to the current activation and will work in every melee exchange. Not 100% sure on this though.

The real problem imho is where to fit this beast. I think Naoko and Kaihime are staple in every Ito list, because Kaihime is the only ranged in the faction and Naoko has the most powerful debuff in the game and they work well together. That's 17rice. You add yatsumata and you sit at 28. Then you need 1 extra BoO because sitting at 3 isn't good. The cheapest BoO is Akimoto, but you need 1 BoO not 2. The second cheapest is Sakura, 35 rice. 1 rice is almost mandatory to buy a card and reach an idol first turn. 36 rice. 14 rice left and only have 4 models. 
Options: Kazuhiko and Kenzo. The first can help Sakura and the second is our best fighter. 
Masunagi and Hitoshi. The first is a good damage dealer and the second helps gaining board control.
Takeji and Chiyo. Average melee backup and you have one extra point to have 2 people on idols first turn.
This is if you want to play with 6 models.

 

 

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Well, i would clearly use him to replace Itsunagi.
Best usewould probably be to go in a big pack of fow and slow them down. Or to defend an objective. He is not a dom dealing model, his strengh are undomitable and slipt attack..

Issue: i don't play istunagi! :-)

So i don't realy know how to fit this one.
With a few cards, to rush the objectives first turn (would alliw to jump out of the satochi/bushi patern?)

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Well here is a list I would consider trying with him. Its basically a Fear stuff hit stuff kinda list.

Yastumata 11
Masunagi  9
Naoko        8
Sakura       7
T. Bushi     5
T. Bushi     5
Hitoshi       5
                    50 Rice

If your really want to you can just swap Sakura for something cheaper and fit in some cards but there are not that many usefull alternatives (Akimoto for 5 but that makes 2 Impetus models which can be pretty harsh, swap for a Chiyo maybe to save 1 rice or swap for Akimoto but then you should swap Naoko for Kaihime).

I don't think you need Naoko and Kaihime in the same list I usually play only one of them because you either want an assault fire/melee/debuff model, or one shooty model with pretty decent melee but both of them is just too high on the rice investment when an Ikiryo gaze or something can just one hit KO them off from the table.

This list I created in my head basically is about Fear gettin some work done and making the models basically immune to fear effects lower or equal of their own. It's fairly low on BoO but there is always an option of swapping a T. Bushi for Akimoto (though I wouldn't do that) and Yatsumata already has enough poison to not need BoO and the other models can still profit from that relatively "low" count of BoO. Btw sorry for this wall of text blush.

 

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Honestly i think i'll try it swapping hitoshi and a bushi for Kaihime and a movement card. Kaihime in my opinion is one of the strongest Ito models in conjunction with BoO and Naoko. Against a medium range, blind target you are looking for at least a success level of 3 and an average of 4 wounds (armor piercing) + 2 extra wounds at the end phase. 1 kill per shot most of the time. I would never leave home without this duo.

p.s.: Ikyrio has trouble against Naoko. 

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I want to try:

Yatsumata

Kenzo

Kaihime

Naoko

Ayako

and 2 rice on cards.

 

All movement 5 light footed :3 but I know that 5 models is poor in activations. With the Hypnotic gaze, the Kaihime shots, Yatsumata lightning reflexes & split attack, and Naoko's blind I have some kind of control...

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It´s a hybrid of the 4 MS Samurais and action advantage. Engage enemy 1 with another friendly model and then Yatsumata engages both enemy 1 and 2 in a split attack. Bingo, 1 action up on the opponent. That fits Ito well which doesn´t have the Warband numbers of other actions. Great design by GCT.

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This new two-headed snakey creature is a fantastic model, as I've just gotten into Bushido I was sold on the Ito faction on the premis of this model, quite looking forwards to painting it up as well as fielding it on the gaming board.

I'm not that offey with the rules yet, so I too was in a quandry about the use of the unique effects;

"once per activation at the start of a melee exchange this model may choose one of the following to take effect until the end of the activation..."

That to me suggests each time Yatsumata is involved in a melee exchange, whether she is the active model or not.  The once per activation bit is to allow her to choose either defensive or offensive per melee exchange, i.e. you won't be locked in if she is attacked, or attacks multiple times in a turn.  Just my take and as I said I'm new, so take that with a pinch of salt!

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Yes the unique effect on this model is abit wierd people can read this is 2 ways.
Master T can we get a confirmation on how it works, is it any activation its in a melee exchange or only when this model activates?

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Ret-MattT wrote:

It´s a hybrid of the 4 MS Samurais and action advantage. Engage enemy 1 with another friendly model and then Yatsumata engages both enemy 1 and 2 in a split attack. Bingo, 1 action up on the opponent. That fits Ito well which doesn´t have the Warband numbers of other actions. Great design by GCT.

Hi. I believe GTC stated a few weeks ago that you could not engage two fows in one melee action if you where not in BtB with one at the begining of the action.
I will chek where it was, but this tricks is not allowed.
However, if the snake is already in btb he can turn around his fow and contact another miniature, if it is not too far

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Found it!

GCT Master T wrote:

Hakkor wrote:

So, in overall, once you get in contact with a Zone of control you can only get into Btb with that exact model, despite having Split Attack trait.

But, traits such as Elusive, Fly, Intangible or getting into Btb without touching any Zone of Control (from the back or insignificant models) could allow you to get into Btb with more than one model if your movement allows you to touch both bases.

Correct?

No you can only enter BtB with one model at a time. 

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I meant like the last case you describe Malhorme. Apologies for the jumbled comment.

The Split Attack makes it even more important to clear up when it gets to chose Unique effect. If it was allowed to pick effect at the start of exchange and was split attacking 2 models it could resolve the first and at the start of the second pick the offensive effect again, as this is a new exchange, and gain 1 die. Not likely intended.

I guess it should be one effect per activation.

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Once per activation it usually means current activation, not "his activations". I think he could use it when engaged against the enemies or most of the time the defensive one isn't used. But i could be wrong, maybe Master T can clarify this.

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Ahh okies and kne more thing the snake comes with a large base but on store it says comes with 40 mm base

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I belive Eresh is correct, you chose the effect at the beginning of a melee exchange involving Yatsumata. If it had only been when Yatsumata was the active model then it would have had to state that.

I do believe that since it says "once per activation", if it wanted to use Split Attack then the alternative chosen would be for both melee exchanges, since they both happen during the same activation.

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Having looked at the studio Yatsumata and tried to fit mine onto a 40mm base for comparison, I'm pretty sure she's supposed to be on a 50mm base.  I've made a query in the Retainers forum about this just to be sure.


It always goes to tiebreakers.

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Malhorme
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Ret-A_Palmer wrote:

Having looked at the studio Yatsumata and tried to fit mine onto a 40mm base for comparison, I'm pretty sure she's supposed to be on a 50mm base.  I've made a query in the Retainers forum about this just to be sure.

Actually, we know for the last sentence ^_^'' thanks to the forum bug, even if we dont have the contents we can see new topics ;-)

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Confirmation from Master T, 50mm base. So Yatsumata is Large, stay away from those ranged attacks!


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carados
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We gathered that already, in fact it looks like it was doubly confirmed from the bugged recent user post list wink

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I can mention that I´ve tried him during testing, interpreting it as "once per activation". Unfortunately was it beheaded by Hiros first swing in the match frown

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Raynzy
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So is it confirmed when we can choose which Head to use during the turn? can he choose a different on on both activations or does she have to use the same one for the whole turn.  Just want to be crystal clear 

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+1

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Well... she's fun to use, I'll give her that.  She's not as powerful as Kenzo with all his Ki feats active, but she's pretty much Kenzo with half his Ki feats going at one time.  Being able to swap between aggressive and defensive at the start of each activation (though if I'm honest, you'll want to stay with the aggressive head) allows you some interesting options.  Armour and toughness makes Yatsumata a sad, sad snake, but generally if you hit a normal human model, they die or come close to dying horribly to the poison.


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As it stands the buff ends at the end of activation meaning it will at best have 4 MS at 2 times per turn, when it is the active model. This means it is always 3 MS when someone attacks it as active model.

EDIT: Whenever a model activates and a Melee Exchange ensues Yatsumata picks a buff like Ret says. Ignore the earlier incorrect post.

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There's no 'active model' specification and every model creates an activation. It's like using Do-Kote when the model with it isn't the active model, mechanically there's nothing to stop me doing so. May not be the best idea, but I could...


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As i said, i think Yatsumata is strong, beautiful but a bit rice intense. And doesn't provide armour piercing like Itsunagi does sadly.

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Raynzy
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Kaihimi brings armour pericing, itsunagi at 13 is just a little to expensive for 50 point match

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Is not expensive at all. Itsunagi itself wins matches. Is the perfect combat machine.

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I played Yatsomota last night for the first time, list was:

  • Temple Bushi
  • Naoko
  • Sakura
  • Kenzo Ito
  • Kaihme Ito
  • Yatsumata

I was playing against Temple and the scenario was The Idols.

I played Yatsumata pretty centrally and found the light footed trait useful initially due to a small forest, obviously I had several light footed models, but it meant I could avoid getting bunched up when advancing on the Idols.

The fear (4) helped when she got attacked by a Temple Fisherman, ending the Temple models activation when it failed.  I suspect the expensive monks would fair much better and fear (4) would seldom stop them!

I didn't really notice the lack of Ki generation as the unique effects kind of make up for that, on that front I tried out both  and found the aggressive head to be pretty useful when attacking, that extra dice of MS when attacking first combined with a potential enemy defence debuf was powerful.  The 2/1 poison was also great as it augmented my BoO pool as in not having to put it on Yatsumata.

I didn't get the opportunity to use split attack, or benefit from the Indominatable trait, nor suffer the penalty for being large when shot at range.

As the game panned out Yatsumata was able to kill a Fisherman and turn an idol to score a VP and free up Kenzo Ito to get stuck in another fight where he was needed.  So all-in-all I'd say she was a valuable piece, she didn't do loads of killing, but that's not always the point.

Really looking forwards to getting Yatsumata painted, she'll certainly have a striking presence being such a fantastic sculpt IMO :-)

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Thanks for the feedback!

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Ret-A_Palmer wrote:

There's no 'active model' specification and every model creates an activation. It's like using Do-Kote when the model with it isn't the active model, mechanically there's nothing to stop me doing so. May not be the best idea, but I could...

With further reaing I noticed there is something as an active model. It´s referenced to under (A) Ki Feats and mentioned in the second paragraph at Actions & Conditions. 

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Sorry, I should have been clearer: there's no 'active model' or 'this model's activation' specified on Yatsumata's card. Rules-as-written that means she can swap unique effect pretty much every time a model activates. It may not be rules-as-intended, but it's a simple errata to align the two if that is the case.


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Hi Guys
 
One question: what happens if Yastu is the victim of Mastu's slam attack.
The serpent can be moved but not prone.
Is he immune to the attack?
Is he juste moved?
What happens if he contacts another mini in the process? Mini is prone? Mini is moved?
 
Thanks
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All the normal rules for throws and slams - and colliding with other models -she just doesn't become prone.


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Ret-A_Palmer wrote:

Confirmation from Master T, 50mm base. So Yatsumata is Large, stay away from those ranged attacks!

Just double checking that this is still correct as the webstore says The Yat comes with a 40mm base.

Not that I'm about to start painting one or anything...

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It comes with a 50mm. Store is wrong.

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Can confirm, 50mm base.


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Yes, mine 50 mm also

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Hi guys! I've read the whole thrread but I don't get one point.

If Yatsumata is in melee with two enemyes and I declare a split attack, i can use the special effect for every single melee exchange?

So, for instance, I can chose +1MS and faint against Target A and Dodge and SSD against Target B?

Thnx :D

A.

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No, you choose which head you're going to use at the start of each activation - any model's activation btw, not just Yatsumata's - but you can only use that head.

Example:

I activate Yatsumata, declare a melee action and that  I'm going with the aggressive head (+1 MS, Feint (1)) and split attack two Rice Farmers.  Yatsumata has MS 4 with my declaration, so I split my dice pool to have 2 dice against each Rice Farmer.  I can benefit from Feint (1) in both melee exchanges.  Gogo giant snake.


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Yatsumata from now on in everyt list I will play!

:D

Thnx!

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She's good, but very unusual for an Ito Clan profile.  If you want mobile aggression you're better off with Kenzo, but if you want some take and hold in your warband, she's pretty much it.


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Hmmm, I played Yatsumata today and was convinced by a fellow Ito player that the upgrade choices, in melee, are only an option when Yatsumata is the active model.

Reading this thread through, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Does Yatsumata get to choose an upgrade every combat?

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I'm going to compose a FAQ, it feels like this comes up every six months.

Yes.  Unique text does specify "once per activation", the RAW of which covers "any of your models' activations", and "any of your opponent models' activations".

From what I remember of the playtest, the text used to specify each melee exchange but that lead to some issues with Yatsumata being outnumbered or using Split Attack with the aggressive head (effectively netting +2 MS between the two melees).


It always goes to tiebreakers.

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