wave 20 cards are out, what do you think?

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Ereshkigal
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wave 20 cards are out, what do you think?

I'm really curious about your opinions on the new wave. I'm not a great fan of the Kaihei pack and Akari for opposite reasons, i really love Mizuki Ito even if the Paralyze was nerfed from the testing (it used to be only A instead of S) but she gained fear 5 and i don't have an opinion about the other models yet (the cult one could be really strong in the right circustamces though).

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As STS is my fav faction I am mostly interested in the kids. The girl has a clear work description and a bonus Feat to with post dropping the Caltrops. I can see her work well in area control. Nomi though is a countermeasure which always is tough to value. At the moment he doesn´t have that great stock, but in a year when KKZ comes out he´ll be very good if Ninjas become popular. Which they will be. Everybody loves elite stealth assassin squads!

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I'm happy with all the new models. Shuichi a bit useless in my opinion but the rest are very good additions. 

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yeah i agree just one question though 

am i correct in thinking you can have 4 members of the Kaihei pack as there are 2 profile cards and each has 2 wound tracks

if so thats awesome 

 

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Shuichi - useful but unexciting.  Combos really well with Tenchi so he can get off Warding Shomyo whenever it's needed (and maybe Cleansing - but honestly Warding Shomyo is really, really good).  I really like the Michi theme that Prefecture is starting to build up now.

Master Akari - stupendously powerful VIM model.  Dies to a stiff breeze if hit, nearly impossible to hit though.  I suspect Akari will be one of those models that only has extreme games: either he owns everything or dies horribly in the first turn.

Kaihei - so many kaihei.  A lot more than I was expecting.  40 rice for the full Yusha+kaihei pack, but what a list!  People will need to read up on Group Activation so we don't see a bajillion models trying to activate all at once.  I expect great things.

Yugio - WHYYYYYYY?!?!?! I disapprove of anything that makes Ikiryo better.  Expect him to be in any lists that bring both Kato and Ikiryo.  Warding Shomyo is also very good, so he's a pretty solid support model with a little Conspiracy damage every now and then to get the Ki up and running.

Ito Mizuki - this wave's winner!  So awesome.  Such wow.  Can support any of the Ito models.  Probable staple in all future tournament Ito Clan lists.

Sukoshi Kani & Nomi - hmm.. makibishi got nerfed, but still quite solid.  They're a bit of a strange one but they give you scout, and they have very narrow focuses for their function.  Hard couple to judge but I expect someone will come up with some sort of wombo-combo involving at least one of them.

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Why do you think Kaihei are a good? 

p.s.: i share your sentiment about Yugio. Tbh i still wonder why ikyrio exists in this game.

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Yugio makes Waku badass, since he can start cursing enemies from turn one. And Kato becomes a beast. He gets a full powered marionette with no need to Conspire, can boost rise almost for free and create new kairai from the dead for only 2 ki (when, up to now, you could only use one of the two feats if you didn't save any Ki). And, of course, for 4 Ki he can boost to MS 4 to Mask his foes into oblivion.

Ikiryo just deals 1 extra damage with her ki feats. Actually not so impressive compared to the improvements the other shugenja get (maybe that's because in my games, Ikiryo keeps draining most of the game).

By the way, Disturb Flow (1/6) must be insane in a faction with so many drains and spirit blocks. Just saying...

Akari and Mizuki are utterly terrifying and Kaihei, played together, can be a pain in the ass as well as Sukoshi Kani (so much potential...).

Suichi and Nomi look strange on paper and can't find a specific spot in their respective warbands, but I don't think they are bad at all, maybe too specialised.

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I'm with everyone else on the STS kids. Nomi must be within range to see camouflaged models to reveal them... Any player will just target him first and he won't last long.

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Regarding akari, it should be forbidden to pick him as VIM :-(. Elusive, autodisengage, unshottable, 18" moving piece of fur.... How do you expect this stuff NOT taking the first VP?

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For Mizuki, she can only support models with Poison? That is Kazuhiko and Yatsumata: What is the point? That makes her so limited, as Mizuki and yatsumata are 23 rice. Did i miss something?
By the way can she use the blessing on herself?
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Blood of Orochi gives models the poison trait.

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Ret-A_Palmer wrote:

Blood of Orochi gives models the poison trait.

Thanks, good to know!

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One of the best things with Mizuki is that she gives Kazuhiko a good reason to be included. She trhives on extra Ki, which is just what he does.

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I take often Kazuhiko now: he is the only 4 rice mini and i often lack one rice to take a bushi.... Besides, i found him usefull to chase weak minis (as trappeng, aiko) who did not wish to get stuck in a BtB. But true: one more reason.

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Her blessing couldn't be more awesome. Sixth Sense in a faction with almost a perma Lightining Reflexes? Yeas please. Auto disengage with so many heavy hitters and mobile models? She his high in rice cost though. so I suppose that means there will be less heavy hitters.

With Kazuhiko, she can give out a Blessing and Paralyze a model per turn, regardless she doesn't have to make a Scenario Action, which will be often with Movement 5 and Light footed. Remember that a Held model needs to check a size test when in Btb, so it's a ncie way to make Bakemono and similar small/tiny powercreeping annoyances be at bay. If they lose both activations in Btb with a model of yours, then you can move it into Melee with another one (since the first model is still Held) and continue stealing activations (you can use Kazuhiko for this duty, por example).

And, whenever you need it, a control token which is also incredibly awesome.

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Hmm a pretty interesting wave to say the least. Here is my 2cents about the new profiles.

Shuichi: The mini looks interesting, but as far as the actual profile goes it's pretty wierd. I find him really redundant as the Pref. already has Daisuke who does the same stuff except better. Warding Shomyo can be a nice addition though now that many factions have access to tokens that give out Special attacks and Defenses.

Master Akari: Really nice looking mini and oh god that profile...This guy has the potential to be the perfect glass cannon, if it decides but it can also be the general annoyance by just running around and tieing up most of the powerhouse models. One of the most solid things that came with this wave.

Yugio: The mini looks mutch better then I expected from the concept art though he is "just" a gravedigger at the end. Btw why is he called the King of Games which is also the name of the japanese card game(and no, leaving out the H from the end doesn't really change this fact cheeky) Also I must share the sentiment of him making Ki Feats cheaper...I can only see how this will hurt with Ikryo, but yea Kato can be pretty badass because of him too. Or Taka with the Whistle card attached and him using his Ki feat on her...cheap Wrath incoming again and again. I discussed Warding Shomyo already so not gonna repeat myself.

Kaihei Pack: No pictures of the minis yet but the profile is out at least. They are...strange. I mean I don't really get how they would fit a list, like do you take them instead of Bakemonos with Onis or with Bakemonos instead of Onis. The only funny thing I though was how Zuba's ranged prone can be really dangerous with them. I mean that after Zuba prones someone the other player has to choose, does he want to spend the activation to make that model stand up, or let it just be potentially murderized by a bunch of Kaihei who will get Ms4 Against it will outnumber the model and it will also be prone...

Mizuki: I wanna see the mini sooooo bad :( . Well about the profile though, she looks really really solid.The blessings are pretty nasty they can help you bring out more of what the Ito are really good at. And now the Ito has Sixth Sense at last (I'm coming for you Bikou, you will taste the blade of Itsunagi the next time you try to run at him!) Paralyze is a great control tool overall. Obey seems a bit redundant but as I see it, its more about denial then control as the enemy will have to choose to either go into Melee with the controlled model or just let it spend 1 activation. The only downside is her cost in rice, she costs a lot and all those offensive type Ki tests can just fail one after another which makes you have an Exhausted Ms2 model ehh... Btw does her unit type has a typo or am I going mad? It sais Hebi Shujenga instead of Shugenja. I mean I like Jenga and all but I don't think thats point there :D .

Sukoshi Kani and Nomi: Nice minis though the little guy looks a bit strange. Their names are also pretty strange (Sukoshi=just a bit of(something), Kani=crab Nomi=Flea , if ya want to make their names into literally small just call'em Chiisai) Kani looks decent though highly specialized but at least she is cheap. Nomi though is the most redundant guy out of this wave and almost in the whole game. Given that he wouldn't be able to target the Camo. model from more then 4inch away most of the time and his Feat will only remove said Camo for a turn is just pretty strange to say the least. Most Camo. models will just slaughter him before he has the chance to come into the range of his Feat. Though you can always try to bait the Camo model into another one and use this Feat after, but you could as well just try to tire said model instead in that situation.

An overall really solid wave this was, my only concern being that we've yet to see some minis, and some naming conventions. (I know I'm the only one that is bothered by this so yea this is the downside of knowing some japanese I guess. Also I'm sorry for this wall of text it turned out mutch longer then I expected or wanted).

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Ret-A_Palmer wrote:

Yugio - WHYYYYYYY?!?!?! I disapprove of anything that makes Ikiryo better.  Expect him to be in any lists that bring both Kato and Ikiryo.  Warding Shomyo is also very good, so he's a pretty solid support model with a little Conspiracy damage every now and then to get the Ki up and running.

Hmmm, I'm not sure Yugio will work with Ikiryo and Kato's marionnette.

Crafting a marionette costs X Ki (no problem with this). The marionette gets Ki = that spent to a max of 4.
If Yugio reduces the cost by -1, and Kato tries to craft a Marionette by spending 4 Ki and Yugio uses his Ki reducing feat, then the maximum Ki of a Marionette will be 3 (4 spent - 1 discount).

Likewise for Ikiryo's gazerbeam or touching cloth feats, both depend on the Ki spent, which would be reduced by Yugio's feat as it reduces the cost --> reducing the Ki spent --> reducing the effectiveness.

Where it would work is with fixed-cost feats (e.g. haunting vision or chill for the kairai).

Is this the intention? It might need a FAQ/errata entry as I can see a lot of cheeky Cult players expecting boosts to Kato and Ikiryo's feats.

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Good catch, i'm interested in knowing that too.

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What is the size of makibishi? I'd like to test this weekend.

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quazard wrote:

What is the size of makibishi? I'd like to test this weekend.

I guess you're talking about Mizuki. Sorry if I'm wrong.
It's always indicated on the store which size is the based delivered with the minis.
http://bushido-thegame.com/catalog/mizuki-ito: Blister contains one model, one 40mm base and one full colour profile card.  

Hope this is helpful.

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KABOCHA wrote:

Ret-A_Palmer wrote:

Yugio - WHYYYYYYY?!?!?! I disapprove of anything that makes Ikiryo better.  Expect him to be in any lists that bring both Kato and Ikiryo.  Warding Shomyo is also very good, so he's a pretty solid support model with a little Conspiracy damage every now and then to get the Ki up and running.

Hmmm, I'm not sure Yugio will work with Ikiryo and Kato's marionnette.

Crafting a marionette costs X Ki (no problem with this). The marionette gets Ki = that spent to a max of 4.
If Yugio reduces the cost by -1, and Kato tries to craft a Marionette by spending 4 Ki and Yugio uses his Ki reducing feat, then the maximum Ki of a Marionette will be 3 (4 spent - 1 discount).

Likewise for Ikiryo's gazerbeam or touching cloth feats, both depend on the Ki spent, which would be reduced by Yugio's feat as it reduces the cost --> reducing the Ki spent --> reducing the effectiveness.

Where it would work is with fixed-cost feats (e.g. haunting vision or chill for the kairai).

Is this the intention? It might need a FAQ/errata entry as I can see a lot of cheeky Cult players expecting boosts to Kato and Ikiryo's feats.

This is the correct way to play it. The discount doesnt allow the player to spend more than X, the fact that X is discounted does not impact on this.

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I don't think Yugio's feat works like that. When reducing the cost, it is intended to have the same result as if you had spent the whole cost in rice but with spending one less counter.

Anyway you are right about both The Marionettes maximum Ki and Ikiryos "Touch the Void" 3 kI cap. You could create a 4Ki marionette spending 3 Ki with Kato, or reflect 3 up to 3 wounds spending 2 Ki.

It may sound powerful, but it currently works with only 3 models and you will hardly see the 3 of them together. Moreover, it has a cost and range, so Shugenjas will be limited in mobility if they want to benefit from the feat. And, of course, if you abuse this feat Yugio won't create any Disturbing flow and he will get severely wounded to get that extra Ki every turn.

I find him pretty nice with Imiko's Mask. The fear trait protects him somehow vs. weak minded models (ki 1 or Ki 2 without bravery). "Disturbing flow" and sit in the middle of the board, taunting your enemy to loose some activations.

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Master T ninjaing me to death...

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There's a reason im a Master :)

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No I mean the template of the feat of Sukoshi Kani.

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Wait a moment.

So if Yugio's Ki feat doesn't affect X costed Ki feats (doesn't matter if the cost is reduced when the result is also reduced), it means Ikiryo does'nt benefit at all, and Kato's Marionette crafting and Rise improving aren't improved. Actually, it's worse for Ikiryo since her damage reflecting feat would be reduced to a maximum of 2. I'll explain myself: if you spend 2 Ki since you have a reduced cost of 1, you will reflect only 2 wounds. But then you can't spend three Ki because applying the -1 cost the value of X would be 4 (3 spent + 1 free).

So Yugio's feat would only benefit Waku and Kato's Kairai crafting.

I know the Ki feat doesn't allow to increase the value of X over the maximum, but does it really nerf their Ki feats reducing the effect of every X valued ki feat whatever you pay? I assume the free Ki granted COUNTS as a spent Ki.

Monks also have many X costed Ki feats and some Faith generation. Are they also nerfed this way?

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I'm confused >_<
 
Quote:

Crafting a marionette costs X Ki (no problem with this). The marionette gets Ki = that spent to a max of 4. If Yugio reduces the cost by -1, and Kato tries to craft a Marionette by spending 4 Ki and Yugio uses his Ki reducing feat, then the maximum Ki of a Marionette will be 3 (4 spent - 1 discount).

 
The marionette will be 4ki, you spent 4 Ki in the end, but you benefit from a discount.
 
Is the same as Kenko with Faith using Fist of Iron. He can Spend 1 Ki and gain +2 Strenght. At least we always played that way.
 
Quote:

The discount doesn't allow the player to spend more than X, the fact that X is discounted does not impact on this.

 
The thing is that you cannot spend 4 Ki and use the discount of Yugio as an extra Ki to craft a marionette of 5 ki, or gain +4 Strenght with Kenko playing 3ki + Faith. this is how I understand the Master T words at least.

 

 

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Hakkor wrote:

Wait a moment.

So if Yugio's Ki feat doesn't affect X costed Ki feats (doesn't matter if the cost is reduced when the result is also reduced), it means Ikiryo does'nt benefit at all, and Kato's Marionette crafting and Rise improving aren't improved. Actually, it's worse for Ikiryo since her damage reflecting feat would be reduced to a maximum of 2. I'll explain myself: if you spend 2 Ki since you have a reduced cost of 1, you will reflect only 2 wounds. But then you can't spend three Ki because applying the -1 cost the value of X would be 4 (3 spent + 1 free).

So Yugio's feat would only benefit Waku and Kato's Kairai crafting.

I know the Ki feat doesn't allow to increase the value of X over the maximum, but does it really nerf their Ki feats reducing the effect of every X valued ki feat whatever you pay? I assume the free Ki granted COUNTS as a spent Ki.

Monks also have many X costed Ki feats and some Faith generation. Are they also nerfed this way?

I think you are overthinking and confusing yourself my friend.

The way is works is that spend X Ki tokens, if X has a restriction ie 3 then would spend 3 Ki tokens. If however your under the benefit of Beleiver or another reducing effect it would only cost you 2 Ki tokens for the 3 Ki effect. You cant however go above the restiction. Conversely if there is an affect that increases the cost of Ki feats you would benefit for having to pay more.

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Nice, that's what i thought it worked like thanks, and yeah, I was overreading it indeed. To much brainwork with translations and such makes me see giants instead of mills.

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And for the size of Makibishi Template, can one have an answer? Thank you very much.

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Hakkor wrote:

Nice, that's what i thought it worked like thanks, and yeah, I was overreading it indeed. To much brainwork with translations and such makes me see giants instead of mills.

suppose we will have to cal you Don then.

 

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quazard wrote:

And for the size of Makibishi Template, can one have an answer? Thank you very much.

Sorry, I did not see the name of the terrain... That's why I've given the answer for Mizuki.
"one Makibishi Terrain Element card" -> maybe is it a card, as Riku has?
But I'm no master, you can't take this for granted ;- )

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Yes, it´s card sized.

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I'm with everyone else on the STS kids. Nomi must be within range to see camouflaged models to reveal them... Any player will just target him first and he won't last long.

 

Same skill as the Kage-Guards. But way more squishier model. To see the typical Ninja he needs to get into 2 inch. With the 4 inch range skill. Which does not make so much sense to me. Would be better as a pulse with no targeting.

And with his defense stats? I dont see much use. You get a 3 rice objective runner but the basic guys are already 4 rice with a lot more survivability. Poor boy...

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I agree, Sukoshi Kani is very good, with flank, camo, and the area, but Nomi is a bit useless. However he can do some damage if needed (in the right situation) and the girl won't do too much. Maybe the boy need a Unique Effect that gives Sixth sense to an ally instead of the ki feat (Like the Koji's Monkeys). But together are 4 activations that cost 6 rice only, both can grab objectives, and give you a total +2 to deployment roll. Not bad thing.

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Makibishi + Lure for Saki. ... I like it!

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