Risen Sun Yurei overpowered?

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skydancer
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Joined: 24/10/2017
Risen Sun Yurei overpowered?

Hi all, in my team group (3 player, 1 with ito other with tengu and me with yurei) there's a common opinion about yourei being too strong and basically invincible.

I try told my friend that i'm just a better player but they refuse this point of view. ;)

In our last tournament. (2 game total for everyone) i used this list : 

Nightmare of Jigoky theme

Breath of Yurei 3

Refuse Pile 1

KATO 22

Taka 16+2 Kimiko whistle

Penny 17

Gendo 13

Sichihiro 9

Gaki 9

Kami of the Blighted Earth 8 

= 100

I won both game pretty easy 2-0 and 3-0 with this strategy.

Summon like a madman first turn, soulles and sixt sence can run and take position in object while they're protected by ranged fire and ranged ki feat.

Second turn forfeit tactic roll and keep fog to cover key pieces from being chanrged or shotted, keep summon stuff if needed, take object or contest them.

The wraith, the Puppet and the summoned rat simply do dmg or even if they just burn enemy activation they place my other pieces in big advantage.

From turn 3 i can cover key pieces with sichihiro bodyguard but generally my oppent is soo busy try to survive from summoned model that barely could place a threat to my key pieces.

 

Aside from the great synergy this list have. (every kami is soulles so can run, charge etc.. in fog) i found some yourei model being a bit overpowered.

 

First and among everything else there's the puppet. I can summon with 4 token, i can summon again even if there's 4 control token on and enemy miniature (that was not true in the past edition of the game), puppet always roll 3 dice for control even if have just 1 ki token on himself. I honesly think that puppet need to be nerfed because is a game breacking roll. (4 control token = game win 99% of the time)

Kami of the blighted earth is a bit too strong imo. Disturb flow 4" and difficult terrain 2" + spirit block upon hit suffered is really annoiyng.

Even Gendo seem an autoinclude in every list. 13 point for ki2, 3 dice, dodge, sidestep 0, flank, cloudwalk and ability to summon a minion every turn is a blast.

***

 

Surely they're list was not top but they keep complain about how annoiyng is play vs Cult so every suggestion for them to how counter cult is welcome.

What do you think about Cult in this new game iteration?

Sora9785
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Joined: 10/09/2018

I think they are bettet balanced.
Your example with kato is the best to explain.

Kato is a string character but for 20 + rice He is really squishy and doesnt pack a punch. On top of that He lost Ranged defence and fear. His puppet got stronger but mostly due to the changes of ki feats. You cant get 4 die opp ki feat with a puppet an more but kato makes the puppet. Even if your opponent throws unlucky and you only sixes, he still get so many control marker than ki on the puppet.

I think most models got good changes. I want to try out araka because I think He looks really string right now.

In the gendo Page I kinda agree but my Problem is in comparison with shinji. Gendo is better (what I think) and cost less.

Just look at other factions. There is often something that seems way top strong. For example I dont know how to handle monks (their nasty special attacks /defenses) and pirates (their cost especially looking at sho)

Well yeah that are my thoughts

Pathie
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Joined: 18/10/2018

I thought that yurei were disgusting as well, but after a few games i found out that every faction has its strong and weak points. The game is absolutely balanced in every possible way, yurei are just really annoying and if you allow them to play their game they can be devastating. You just have to approach it differently. Their abilities are awesome and some models are a pain in the... (looking at you ikyrio!). But in the end, there is an answer to everything, just some lists are a slight counter to others

Sora9785
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Joined: 10/09/2018

A buddy of mine plays a Lot of bakemono and they have trouble against yurei.
When The onis Hit The field I am a little scared.

Ikiryo has nearly no weakneses. Aside from random sucessful fear Test (and fearless) she is really Hard to kill (with arashis Fan)

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Quwaz
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Joined: 05/08/2015
I took out Ikiryo in my last match by lighting her up with flame kami fireballs. If you can get through all the fear and defense gimmicks, Cult models are usually pretty squishy in straight health. Lots of Cult models also rely heavily on getting set up, working with other models, or needing protection. It's about focusing on the specific pressure points, instead of trying to withstand everything and just attacking the wall. That's what undead players always want you to do.
Sgnappa
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Joined: 27/11/2017

Hi all, I am the Ito player over there.

Before entering in details, sometimes we exchange our armies; the Ito lose a game if he does any single mistake (or sometimes a couple of bad rolls); when I play Yurei I have so many effects and models to prevent any Ito stategy that I make more mistakes and bad choices but win as well. We tried to identify why Yurei is so strong, and maybe is only because I don’t have some key models for my army yet (I think they are Kyou and Jirou for my two themes, but also some Ronin like Golden Guard, Tenchi and so on); but often we fall into consider Kato, Earth Kami and Themes/Breath of Yurei as game breakers.
Speaking of that, since we begin to play with themed armies, Yurei won at turn 2-3 on the average, no matter who is the player.

My issues are principally on the themes: D&D allows Yurei to overcome easily his flaws (they are supposed to be a slow army, but they are definitively not so much with this theme); Nightmare allows Yurei to put tons of summoners. Breath of Yurei are not an unbalanced effect itself, but prevent your enemy to try a good first strike and taking some other advantages if combined with themes. So you cannot simply gets the first VP and fight for the others, but the VP is often scored by Yurei or not scored by anyone; and you cannot also ignore the first VP and take out the key models since they are too well protected.

Kato are supposed to be squishy but he’s not: due to the proctection of Kirai, he can threat your attackers with Ivory Prison; in Nightmares every single burakumin can used for bodyguard. After that, you simply cannot stop the puppet to control one of your models – sooner or later it would happen – and controlling for a whole turn a 10 PA model when Yurei are also outnumbering you is simply the winning situation. The only way to deal with Ito (but we never experiment it) is tanking with a Souless model, like Yatsumata or the Ancestor: but this mean you burn precious activations to only slow something that you cannot stop. Even a combo attack could be dangerous: having you precious model being controlled by a whole turn means that it come to another and try to kill it with an “all attack” melee, burning lots of activations while not killing someone.

Kami of Blighted Earth for 8 PA draw lot of your resources in terms of movement, activations and Ki. To me is underprized and seems an autoinclude whenever you can play it. No Kami is strong as this to me.

Gendo is not really unbalanced, the only issues I have to it is he can summon his rats as an Active feat. Wait? I can Accelerate Venom as a simple action (that means I’ve already poisoned him, I have to win a Ki test and spend my activation to do it), and Gendo can simply run and summon, or summon at any time without even spending an activation to do it, without any possibility to fail? Dropping rats every single turn means that Gendo can overcome every equal Rice Cost opponent with the sheer number of activation he could provide.

Ikyrio is really strong, but she has flaws: a good shot can take her down, a brave (or better fearless) can do the job, even in a triple shisai list you can poison/drain her with a good chance to success, and she costs a lot after all.

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Omligh
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Joined: 28/05/2019

I'm playing yurei as well with either death & decay setup or burakumin. Me and my friend realized, after having played 4-5 games spaning over a month that yureis kairais can be either really good or very frail.

Being soulless with fear and tough makes the kairais quite resilient against poison and most low/mid damage range. What we had missed entirely was the full grasp of slow, making any melee exchange with a kairai act last. This came as a pleasant suprise to us both since this mistake changes alot of strategy.

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