Guardsman of Ryu

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undead_ichi's picture
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Guardsman of Ryu

Hello i saw the discussion on the jade mamba and someone hinted that you could have 2 of them in ur force, 

so what about the guardsman well minaro is the named version so it stands to reason that you could have 2 so can we? 

Ret-Ridmasta
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You can in fact have 3, minuro and 2 guardsmen crying

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Can you give us some stats please? There's nobody to hint me :)

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I'm not certain what you mean by 'guardsmen', Ichi.

Ryu spearmen? Minuro isn't one.

 

The stats for the Jade Mamba Guard isn't out yet. Jouer indecision

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no henrix the new shooty person for the pref that is not released yet

cheers ridmaster thought that would prob be the case yay. 

front rank fire!!!

 

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Stat's wise, I'm guessing (not seen the playtest on the guardsman) the same as Minuro without the Ki feat "Three shots a minute".  Can't see them being less than 5 Rice unless the ranged stat goes down to 2 (in which case I would have doubts on their viability - as long range shooters - for the same reasons as I mentioned in the Errata thread) and wouldn't make sense to be more than Minuro (as the named character).

3 riflemen is an imposing prospect but you would be looking at around 15 rice of ashigaru that are rubbish at melee and could be locked in melee by a sneaky opponent to nulify their strengths.  Of course in a large game they are certainly viable but at 35 rice, I'd stick to one or two.

 

 

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At 50 rice, 3 Arquebusiers with Move it! and Command ashigaru can be very devastating.

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I dunno.

I think that giving them 2 RAS would be fair enough. Do you imagine if at 35 rice, with Hanso + Minuro + Guard (+ 16 points like 2 ashi + Jin or whatever), you can turn 2 use move it to have 2 deadly shoot simultaniously + a move to protect the shooters. With Hanso, you've got +1 to your tactical roll, and with 2 shoot you're able to kill two minis.

That's huge! Even without 3 shoot per minute, the guard would be awesome!

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Absolutely Atrus at 50/55 Rice that combo is quite powerful (assuming decent stats) I just know that a good player will know to stick something into base contact with the riflemen and leave it there to shut them down - always roll all defence or as they will only be rolling 1 dice when not active even a fisher girl/peasant would stand a chance against them. :)

2 RAS would be fair enough but would make the long range of the arquebus pretty redundant (low success level if any) so you would typically spend most of the game running (or being "Move'd It") up the board to get into short range.*

*which is arguably what I do with Minuro anyway when there is an Oni or Monk too many for a samurai to take on alone. ;)

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Joey_Boy
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I hope they are RAS2, if there is a flooding of RAS 3 shooters the entire game will start to shift. Something like the fishergirl would be nice, but with more then one range band ;)

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According to the concept art fluff they are "trained and drilled relentlessly to ensure that in battle they act and react instinctively, unflinching as they wait for orders from their Gunso or samurai commanders."

 - sounds like skilled troops not a peasant with poor knife/stick throwing skills cheeky

 

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If it is true that the fow will do his best to stick something on the guardman, please remember tht he will not have an unlimited number of mini to do so.

When i play temple, i usually have 2 kamis, and only one kamis has the mission of sticking to shooter.
Would i be facing 3 shooter that i would lack one mini to control them.

As Joueur said, a clever Pref player will have shoots at the begining of turn 2, that are likely to cause one death.
Ashigarus are not expensive, so whatever the model they kill, it is worth losing the guardman after!

So it is likely that very early in turn 2, you end facing 3 shooters, without possibility to control them all, and already with some dead monks in your side. (And don't argue about cover please: we play on tables loaded with them, but all shoots are a short range, and the shooter always managed to place himself to avoid them).

So i agree with wath was said ago, 3 RS would be too much, too powerfull, as 3 shooters will allready be a good bargain.

Do no if i'm clear, its early and i'm tired....

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undead_ichi wrote:

no henrix the new shooty person for the pref that is not released yet

Oh, ah, they changed his name? blush
I think I preferred the first.

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Ret-Randis
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Retainer-Henrix wrote:

undead_ichi wrote:

no henrix the new shooty person for the pref that is not released yet

Oh, ah, they changed his name? blush
I think I preferred the first.

 

Mhhh... maybe i read to much into this but...

So there is a chance that the guardman is a named character afterall?

I mean Sukuratchi was refered as "Beasthandler" in the preview as well...

 

Ret-Ridmasta wrote:

You can in fact have 3, minuro and 2 guardsmen crying

 

Mmmhh... or maybe just wishful thinking on my part.
 

 

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No, it wasn't a character, just arquebusier.

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Having looked at the finished profile card, 4 rice is pretty cheap for a ridiculous weapon, but will you be able to get the best out of RaS 2? would you field the three gun line? (I can see some real synergy here with Junichi, Fujitaka and Hanso) 

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With 2 dice and Reload 3 I think its Ok. Extra shoots of lethal weapon but at High Cost: Minuro +2 guardsmen are 13 points already and without survivability. Lets see on table :P

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CubicleSamurai204
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He isn't anything to rave about but he's more of a threat than our other 4 rice option, madoka, so I'm definitely brining him into my 50 point list. Also GCT really should have advertised that he comes with extra parts to make an alternative yariman... Now I have to order another one and get dinged on shipping again lol.

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Greeny wrote:

Having looked at the finished profile card, 4 rice is pretty cheap for a ridiculous weapon, but will you be able to get the best out of RaS 2? would you field the three gun line? (I can see some real synergy here with Junichi, Fujitaka and Hanso) 

Didn't realise they put the card up for that one already! 

All I'm going to say is not at 35 rice and at 50 Rice there's more effective options, another not great release for Prefecture imho, a pass token ability is pretty lackluster and the yarimen provide this already, no survivability in combat and wont hit anything beyond 6 inches away with a reasonable success makes this ineffective design for what it's intended (long range support - why else have an 18'' range); by the time he's reloaded he will be dead or locked in combat and giving dice to the opponent's model to kill him with (cumbersome + exhausted)

For 4 Rice he's at least better than some other 4 Rice models (which makes me wonder how Rice values are generated for stats) but doesn't really work for me, would have rather seen RaS 3 but dropped his useless abilities like MaS 2 (cumbersome makes this base 1 on opposing turn anyway) and pass token generation. His ability to boost is MaS is interesting though - not sure why as it could be argued if you are putting him in combat something has gone wrong!

Would still get this for the alt arm options though, anyone able to post a picture?

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RaS 3 would be out of the question for a 4 Rice model.  RaS 2 hits a nice spot where he's a huge threat at close range and does decent damage at medium (Averages at medium, assuming you take the best shot available on an exhausted/prone/whatever target is sucsess 1-2 which at +4 Str and with armour piercing is decent damage).

Remember also he's an ashiguru so has lots of synergy with other models.  Command and Move It! being the obvious ones.   He's never going to one-shot things like Minuro can but he's very good for 4 rice.  

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Retainer-LEJ wrote:

RaS 3 would be out of the question for a 4 Rice model.  RaS 2 hits a nice spot where he's a huge threat at close range and does decent damage at medium (Averages at medium, assuming you take the best shot available on an exhausted/prone/whatever target is sucsess 1-2 which at +4 Str and with armour piercing is decent damage).

Remember also he's an ashiguru so has lots of synergy with other models.  Command and Move It! being the obvious ones.   He's never going to one-shot things like Minuro can but he's very good for 4 rice.  

Sorry I did mean to add make him 5 rice in my suggestions.   He may be decent for 4 Rice (I disagree very good) but I can't see him doing a lot, I'd rather pay 5 rice and have a glass cannon.  RaS 2 is okay for close range, but not good at long (which goes back to my point about being a long range support).

The way I see it going down is that he will move into position (Heavy), take one shot (not kill anything unless within 6'') and as he is now within easy reach of melee (3 activations of sitting there to reload!) and will go down very quickly if engaged/unsupported; either way he isn't firing for a while and therefore isn't worth taking over every other Ashigaru at 35 Rice games as he will spend most of the game working like a pass token.   

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First, I think expecting him to be able to kill things at 18" is unreasonable.  Really expecting him to kill models at 12" is a bit much (Only Cult get that!) so for the 4 rice you get a model that can move into position, maybe do 3ish damage to a model at medium range then use the myriad Prefecture tricks to become tired again from exhausted, become rested or otherwise take additional actions to reload faster than expected.  

In a 6 turn game its not uncommon to see him shoot 4 times and 5 is possible.
I think maybe you are fixating on the 18" range which is there but not the intended use of the model.  Minuro can barely touch that long range bracket and he does fine.  

The advantage to ranged models is not their frequency or even power of attacks, though this one is certainly powerful, but being able to shoot to the back lines.  Taking out support pieces really only needs the 12" medium range and hitting exhausted Shisai, Ikiryo, Rice farmers and the like is well worth it.

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@Orochi: I'm going to blow you to pieces at SmogCon with my Ashigaru gun line. :)

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I need to try it.

3 shooters like that are pretty scarry. I mean, in a 35 rice list vs temple with

  • Hanso (9)
  • Minuro (5)
  • 2*guardsman (8)

Fill the 13 rice left with Jin / Mikio for example. On turn 2, you can clearly kill a lot of model (probably 3) with order + move it. And then manage to play the scenario with your minis. Even if a guardsman gets killed, it is probably a good operation.

The problem is when you can't kill anything like with the cult or the wave...

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@Retainer-LEJ, I really don't expect a guardsman to kill at 18'', I never said that, what I was more concerned about was being able to hit let alone to damage; I'm probably focusing on long range too much which doesn't help, probably intended more as an option rather than a tactic; (the fear influence of the range might be worth it though), you're right in that it's short/medium that you would be looking to get into but are they worth the investment for maybe a few points of damage when they don't offer much else in terms of tactics(Yari ashigaru for 1 Rice more can melee effectively, tire models and hold objectives quite well).  I also see your point about Ashigaru support models like Fujitaka, I had thought about it but I think they have better things to focus onto when I play - Minuro/Hanso.

As they are at 4 Rice, they aren't terrible, I'm not saying that, indeed as I said better than some other 4 Rice models, just not what I hoped for and not 'go to' models for me.

Overall, I want try this model out (- unless my opponent is running Sojobo!),  I cetainly like the idea of riflemen in Prefecture but I have doubt's about their effectiveness in how I choose to play Prefecture (you might play them completely different so disagree with me).

 

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Just to inform the Prefecture players that want another Yariman, apparently the Guardsman comes with a spear so you can decide if he's going to be a yariman or a guardsman - or so I'm told by one of the Prefecture players up here.  People skilled with magnets may get both!

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